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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-30-2003 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Hello Everyone, I'm new to this forum...I was referd here by another member.

This is the type of message board that does so much good for our breed and helps those who don't like it, get the truth, which is that Pit Bulls's (APBT) is a fabulous and great dog for an experienced dog owner. Anyone who wants a dog to take to the dog park better get a clue and never own a APBT and also that even without a APBT there is going to always be dogs that fight eachother. MAN created this breed to be a dog fighter. This is genetics no matter how much one socializes or tryies to be "nice" to their dog, please understand that all APBT have the tendancie to turn on a dog at any moment depends on the confruntation and the situation.

The media has done a terrible job portrtaying their image.

Here is a fact for you:
When MAN created the APBT, he created the dog to be a dog fighter, but at the same time created a dog that would be extremley loyal and kind to man. At ANY sign of aggression towards a human, the dog was immediatley destroyed. That is why today almost all APBT's are very sweet, loyal, loving, family companions. However, that is also why you will continue to see them fightig other dogs. Genetics is there and until we can convince the breeders to breed only the APBT's that show no sign of aggression towards other dogs...this will continue to happen.

I own a male APBT and he is my best freind and protector. He respects me because I earned his trust and respect. I think the majority of people who get dogs don't have the slightet clue what they have gotten them self into...other wise we wouldn't see a APBT at a dog park ever and we would have dumb asses putting a roti puppy in with two adult APBT's.

Cheers
shmoopie

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-30-2003 06:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
hey,
i am alays glad to meet another pitbull owner.I just wanted to say hey and welcome.
you will see that i take this breed very serious,and i have mad alot of people here mad because i do take them serious.
i would like to correct you on one of the statments you made in your above post.pitbulls were not bred to fight other dogs in the begainning.they were bred to be used as bull bait.when that became out lawed they were used to kill rats.then they were used for dog fights.
a pitbull can be very good with other dogs.i have 10 pitbulls and 1 basset/beagle mix.i have never had a problem with them fighting .
the only thing my male show pit will not allow is another stray dog in his yard.when we go to our play group he is so good with the other dogs.he has never once tryied to hurt any of the other dogs.
i am not trying to be an a** or anything.but if i do not stand up for these dogs then no one will.

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-30-2003 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Helllooo
Always glad to meet another APBT lover.
You are right on the history of the bull bait etc....I simply point out the fact that these dogs were and are continued to be used as fighting dogs so that means the majority of the APBT breed out there are going to show some sort of aggression towards other animals...not all APBT's.

For example...my dog "Duke" Gorgious White and Red APBT. He's a nut when it comes to other dogs...can't handle it if the other dog looks at him, he starts to lunge and growl and it takes quite a bit from me to control him. However, his little niece who is now 9 months old....loves other dogs. She will play with the smallest Jack Russell to the largest Roti and always back down when the other dog begins to domiante.

Duke can and will only play with female APBT's and even then I have to closley supervise and the other owner must be there to control their dog aswell.

I feel each dog has such a unique personality..it's really hard to know what ones dealing with so I believe knowing the history and what sort of genetics were dealing with helps a lot.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-31-2003 10:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
ok...I understand what you are saying now..Thats cool..Ihope you did not take anything I said the wrong way.It is always a great pleasure in meeting another pit lover...

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-31-2003 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
No worries. I understand your defensiveness. Our dogs need more people like you and I who stand up for them and help them. We just need to keep in mind that when dealing with a difficult person to remember we represent the breed and need to keep it cool and explain with facts about the breed.

Cheers

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pittypat
unregistered
posted 02-02-2003 04:42 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Hi - I agree that one of the greatest dangers to our breed are people who get them without understanding them.

Concerning dog aggression, I shudder when I see the words, "It's all in how you raise them", or "My 8 month old pit is just fine at the dog park, so I'll keep taking him until he's not!"

These are people whose dogs will be in the headlines next, because when "he's not" it will be too late.

Pit bulls do not belong in dog parks. Ever. We know that if our dogs are involved in any kind of incident, no matter who started it, they will be blamed.

Why would anyone take such a chance with their dog? I am paranoid about keeping my dog away from others, because I know one bite will bring down the "Vicious pit bull" outcry.

As for human aggression, these dogs have been selectively bred to be submissive and soft with humans. Any dog who attacks a person has been trained, or treated in such a way as to make it untrustworthy.

Human aggression is an aberration in this breed and should never be tolerated.

Rescued pit bulls, who have been burned, beaten, shot, starved, and left for dead still greet their rescuers with a wag and a lick. Few other breeds would be so forgiving.

As for all the biting incidents - how many papers would be sold with the screaming headlines "LAB (or Dalmatian, etc) bites!" Who wants to hear about sweet Labs, or Pongos biting?
The media goes for what sells - that is the bottom line.

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 02-03-2003 02:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Hi pittypat!

You sound very educated about the APBT...great post!

I aggree 100% about not taking a APBT to a dog park....should never be done!

I live with people 24/7 who have no clue.

My aunt and her boyfriend own a 9 month old female APBT. I have been helping her understand that just because her dog doesn't show any sign of aggression now that she will always have to be on guard when out in a public place and dogs are running free. Her female is great with other dogs right now, but this past weekend I saw the APBT side where she tried to istigate fight. Of course I pionted it out to my aunt, but refused to believe me and thinks nothing of it.

It is truly hard to get accross to those people who "think" they know what they are doing and refuse to accept help from someone who has been down that road before and from someone who has studied and obsesseed about dog behavior.

Ahhhhhh...how do I get accross to these idiots...help!!!

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pittypat
unregistered
posted 02-03-2003 04:27 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Please show this article from PBRC to your aunt. Maybe something written by Posted byities on the subject will make her take notice. http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html

Her refusal to face facts could cost her dog it's life, and that is not an exaggeration.
My personal belief is that dog parks are the worst invention ever. You may know your dog, but you do not know other people's dogs, or how they will react.
To be blunt, there are too many idiots out there who have no clue as to dog body language and posturing, and cannot recognize danger signals.

With pit bulls, anything can start a fight - from toys to treats to the way another dog looks at them.

It can happen in the blink of eye. Ask your aunt what she will do the day that her dog decides she doesn't want to "play nice" anymore. It may not even be her dog who starts trouble, but her dog WILL be blamed.

At the very least, she should have a breaking stick at all times, and learn how to use it.

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 02-03-2003 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for that article. I have printed it and will give it to her tonight. She's quite stuborn because she thinks she knows it all, every time I try to educate her (as I read about it, she hears about it)she claims to know soooo much more. Her idiot boyfriend..ahhh. We went for a quick walk to the park. There was a lady walking her German Shephard. He went to let her off lead and I had to catch him and point out there was a lady walking her dog on-lead. He looks at me and said "who cares...she'll run from him is he's aggressive" Ahhhh I almost smacked him. I calmly pointed out that he has no right to allow her over to that dog unless the owner says okay. And since the other dog is on lead, I wouldn't take the chance, especially since you own the Pit Bull and everything will be held accountable to you! Don't think you want the SPCA knocking on your door and taking away your dog...do you???? He thought about it, but continued to be a jerk...some people...my own family and I can't help them...ahhh

My boyfriend was with me and just shook his head, he started to rub my neck and he could see I was a little pissed trying to educate him. People refuse to accept help...it's so frusterating. I keep saying it's better to be safe than sorry and that it's a lot easier to keep your dog away from the other dogs, than to deal with the fear aggression afterwards, but what the heck she knows everyhting right....
I only live it!

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 02-03-2003 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Hi guys,

Welcome to the group shmoopie!
Hi pittypat and princess.

It sure sucks but I agree 100%, pits don't belong in public parks while other dogs are around. It doesn't matter who starts it, the pit will finish it and then will be found guilty. Any unfortunate bystanders will witness a very unpleasant experience that will leave a horrible impression about this breed in their ignorant minds forever. They don't understand what happened, all they understand is that a small dog kicked the crap outa a big dog. (usually the case) Then they find out it was a pitbull and in their minds because of the media, they decide it was 100% the pits fault. Even if he was on a leash, on the other side of the park, minding his own business with his master & the other dog (rotty, gsd, lab or whatever, started it by running over and trying to take a ball etc. away from the pit.

I took my dogs to the dog park till they were 2 or so, they got into a couple of minor fights which was ok, but when Thor was attacked by a small bull terrier with a spiked collar, controlled by a woman who would do nothing to help, that was the last time I ever visited that park. ( I was hitting a ball into the lake, I chose an area where no one was at the time) I do believe that the time we had there did help with my dogs socialization. However, it was just a matter of time before my dogs matured and decided " I am not taking crap from anydog "
My dogs never start fights, this I believe is from my training and socialization, however they do finish them when this unfortunate scenario happens.

In the last couple years, when an idiot hits his tennis ball right at us, I don't even bother to talk with the guy, I just take off before his dog arrives. Sure sucks but it's part of the commitment I made when I got this breed. It is a heavier burden then owning almost any other type of breed.

But what these dogs give in return, is unequalled. No other breed can compare. (For you dog owners that don't know about pitbulls, I mean if what you want out of your dog is Intelligence, agility, obedience, loyalty, strength, gameness, courage, drive, motivation, undying love for master and family )

I don't think that all pits are vicious, but in the wrong hands, they are like a loaded gun. It's great that you are around your aunt because you love dogs and this breed. I am sure you won't let her make any drastic mistakes.

Any good dog out there, regardless of breed, didn't get like that by training itself, they all recieved alot of love, commitment, socialization and proper training.

Russ

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 02-03-2003 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Hey,
I have to agree with alot of the comments both of you have made except one.I take my dogs to the dog parks and other places.My dogs are wonderful around other dogs.I am not saying every pitbull is going to be this way,because if I did I would not be telling the truth.I take exstream measures to make sure my dogs are not put in harms way.My dogs only play with the dogs and OWNERS that we BOTH know.I do not recommend that everyone take their pits to the park,but I do not understand how you can say that NO PITBULL should ever go to a park.My dogs love to be with other people and dogs.By not letting these dogs be with other dogs that is like agreeing with the media and any one else that has ever said these dogs are dangerous.
My dogs know what I exspect from them just as I know what they exspect of me.When you compermize that trust you might as well not even have the dog.
Please do not miss understand my comments.I mean no disrespect for anyone.This is just my opinion.

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 02-03-2003 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Princess,

My bad, I meant any dog agressive pitbull. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I am so happy for you, being able to take your dogs out like that.
I really really miss those days and would love to have them back again, I just can't chance it tho =(

I have thought about taking my dogs out for walks one at a time, that would decrease the pack mentality factor.

My theory is: everytime we are out walking and a 3rd dog enters the picture, Thor has to prove his right to be alpha, put the dog in its pecking order, at the bottom. Pretty basic theory but methinks its the correct one.

Thus, I stay away from parks during daylight hours =(

Russ

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 02-03-2003 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Hey Russ,
I understand where you are comming from.I respect you for the way you handle your dogs and understand there needs.I will agree with your theory.My dogs have finally realized that I am the alpha dog in our house.I has taken me along time to get things this way.I just recommend that pitbull owners do what is best and work for him/her and their dog.

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 02-03-2003 06:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Hey all, Russ good to see you here!

I agree and have to say...I miss those long two hour walks and a trip to the park to play. Breaks my heart every day that goes by and the sun is out shining and I know the park is only 5 minutes away...Duke will sit staring outside...then I get his cage muzzle...6 foot leash and of course my bottle of MACE (for all those irrisposible dog owners who don't know to ask before letting their dog over to me)and Duke backs away because he doesn't want to be muzzled and kept in a heel command the entire time outside. I hold it all in and stand up tall and remember all the times my dog has been attacked by everything and anything but a Pit Bull. I head out of the house only to come running back in because someone thinks their dog deserves to be off leash even though the stupid mutt don't listen to a single word the owner gives.

It's sunny right now over here...I'm at work, but when I get home. I'm grabbin my dog, my bottle of mace and his leash and a walkin we will go. It's not the same though...I wana play the way we used to. At the park by our selves and havin a great time. It used to be so much fun...I miss those days

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pittypat
unregistered
posted 02-03-2003 07:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Russ said "I don't think that all pits are vicious, but in the wrong hands, they are like a loaded gun."

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "vicious." If you are referring to animal aggression, that does not equate viciousness to me. Most pit bulls at one time or another will display some degree of intolerance towards other animals.

A large part of this breed's problem is that many people equate prey drive and animal aggression with human aggression, and there is really no connection at all.

And yes, you are quite right that this is a very difficult breed to own if you don't have a thick skin and can't ignore ignorant and hateful comments.

There are times I long for the days when I had a dog I could take anywhere off leash and never worry. It was very nice!

But as you also say, the love, sweetness, loyalty and laughter I get from my dog make up for the bad part.

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 02-03-2003 07:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, I do agree. The loyalty and love my dog gives to me could not compare to that of another breed and even though I can't take him to a dog park (I will never take another dog to a dog park, now that I understand dog behavior doesn't matter the breed)we have fun in our own way and it's not that we don't ever go to the park...we go every weekend. I just have to have a plan and be VERY careful.

P.S. Loved Australia when I visited for the 2000 Olympics...noticed there were Pit Bull's everywhere in Cains!!

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