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Posted by Topic subject:   dog pregnant
small dog
unregistered
posted 09-15-2003 12:28 AM           Edit/Delete Message
My 9 months old shihtzu girl just had her first period, and she had intercourse with my 2yrs old male shihtzu, we caught them in action, he actually forced her, we tried to separate them, but he start become very violent. It was first time and last time for both of them. I don't want her to get pregnant this early at all because she is so small, less than 8lb, he is a big boy about 16lbs. I wasn't sure if she got pregnant or not until I just took her to see the vet. yesterday, because she start not eating well and sleeps a lot. The vet says she has no fever, and she might be preg., but need to take a x-ray to confirm. I am scared, has no experiece, and she is too young and too small. But I don't want to spay her since it is about one month and maybe 1.2months ago. I read a lot of info. about how to help a dog giving birth, but I am afaid it will not be easy for her and me. The VET visit is very experience out there, I don't think I can afford to take her to the emergency room if it is necessary. I need more advise on how to help my girl to be safe. I wonder if it is good to ask the vet to take out the puppy by surgey and spay her the same time, I don't want her to go through this again. Any one there can help us,give us more advise?

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puttin510
Member

Posts: 839
From:,Calif. U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 09-16-2003 08:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for puttin510     Edit/Delete Message
Given the fact that the male was twice her size she is a definate candidate for a cesarean birth. The vet can also spay at the time of the birth there after. Just keep up with the vet visits and be there when she needs you. Your vet even plan a date to opererate. It is very important. She could die giving birth. So be very observant with what is going on. Grated you already know 9 months is way too early for her to have pups, but I think you know already. Keep in touch with the vet.

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the_maine_pitbull
Member

Posts: 251
From:Allagash, Maine USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 09-16-2003 10:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the_maine_pitbull     Edit/Delete Message
Well, I am surprised that no one really jumped at this topic.. anyhow, in my opinion, your dog is way too young to be having pups.. Yes, she most probably can do it, but her body is not fully matured yet and it is VERY dangerous both for her and the puppies as well. Maybe you do not want to spay her, but that is probably your best bet. They can remove the pups while they are at it. You are saving her and the puppies both from a lot of pain and trouble, maybe even death.. please think long and hard about this. That is what I would do, have her spayed and the pups removed, just for safety issues of both. Also, these pups are going to be a big expense with vet visits, foods, cleaning and it is mentally and physically EXHAUSTING!!! I only say this because you mentioned affordability. It is a big task to take on and you could be up all hours feeding puppies and nursing the mother back to health, maybe even have to raise puppies on your own if she does not make it. Think long and hard about what is more important.. not having her spayed and risking all these chances or having her spayed and bypassing any problems like this.
Angie

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Alter the dog-- not the breed!

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Jas

Moderator

Posts: 262
From:
Registered: May 2003

posted 09-16-2003 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Small dog. Welcome. Sorry to hear what happened. Just so you know dogs do not "force" other dogs to reproduce. It may look and sound like it, especially if the female is crying out in pain, but really it is instinct. The male dog knows when the female is most receptive. Most people wait until a dog has matured and old enough to pass health tests and clearances before allowing a dog to be bred, but accidents do happen. In the wild animals will breed as soon as the female is receptive and the female may not be mature - but there are still risks. I'm not sure I (personally) would terminate the pregnancy at this stage (talk to your vet more about this) but yes an emergency with the mother or pups could be costly. Raising a litter costs money and takes a considerable amount of time. So you (and your vet) have to decide what would be best for you and the mom to be. I would have the mother spayed once she has recovered. Talk to your vet about a payment plan, should there be a problem then at least this will be covered (one less worry) OR you may need to get a credit card and pay it off as you are able.

Pets cost money and if we do not have the healthiest & best representatives of the breed, and are not financially prepared for a litter we should have ALL pets spay & neutered, I'm not giving a lecture, but just some thoughts to ponder for the future. Also, should she be pregnant think about finding homes and having a strict contract with potential new owners, to prevent the same from happening with their pup.

keep us updated,
good luck

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Jamiya
Member

Posts: 501
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 09-17-2003 05:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
I suppose the obvious question would be if you didn't want her to get pregnant, then why wasn't she spayed? Did you plan to breed her in the future?

What's done is done, but maybe others here will take a step toward responsible pet ownership and get their pets altered NOW. Younger is better - don't even wait for them to be 6 months old.

I would even think about altering the puppies BEFORE they go to their new homes. There are low cost spay and neuter clinics usually (check with your local shelters), and that way you know this won't happen again.


Jamiya

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jeminn
Member

Posts: 166
From:Colorado, USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 09-17-2003 07:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jeminn     Edit/Delete Message
I did not think it was healthy for dogs to be spayed earlier than 6 months of age. Can anyone shed some light here? I know that shelters will spay and neuter before their puppies or kittens are adopted out. However, I have known several people who have had animals (mainly cats) that were spayed at a very young age- like 8 weeks- from shelters, and they have gone on to have continuous problems with bladder infections and/or incontinence. One friend was told by her vet that it could be related to spaying too young, but that it is hard to tell. I did not get my Husky spayed until she was about 6 years old and she ended up having mammory cancer- she is still with us at age 16, but still, I should have had her spayed much earlier to lessen this risk. My aussie will be spayed in October and she will be 6 months old, as recommended by my vet. One of my rescued cats was adopted from a "cat clinic" and they gave me a coupon to redeem when it was time to spay her, at 6 months. I prefer this approach for health reasons for the animal, but also understand why they enforce mandatory spaying and neutering at shelters even for very young animals. I would like to hear what other vets have advised. When I worked at the kennel, it was advised to have it done between the ages of 6-9 months, and closer to 6 for hormonal reasons, especially in males if they were not going to be bred.

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Jamiya
Member

Posts: 501
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 09-17-2003 08:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
12 years ago when I first starting getting dogs and cats, vets were saying 6 months. We had our cat neutered at 5 months just to be sure he never started spraying.

Since then, the shelters have started altering animals as early as 8 weeks. They have actually found that the younger animals bleed less during surgery and recover faster, with few complications.

I have a friend whose cat was neutered at about 3 months and he is a year old now and very healthy.

My new puppy was spayed before leaving the shelter. She was probably 12-14 weeks old. We picked her up the day after the surgery and she was totally fine.

My sister was told by her breeder that spaying actually DECREASES the risk of bladder infections in female dogs.

Check out this page for more info: http://www.alleycat.org/pdf/early.pdf

Here is a brief excerpt from that paper:

"However, early-age spay/neuter has been endorsed by the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA). The AVMA states that they "...support the concept of early (eight to 16 weeks of age) spays and castrations in dogs and cats, in an effort to stem the overpopulation problem in these species."

"…kittens and puppies sterilized as early as seven weeks of age suffer no medical or behavioral side effects. [His] report also stated that puppies and kittens sterilized before twelve weeks of age had fewer complications from surgery than those over twelve weeks."


Here is another page about early spay/neuter for cats. Be sure to notice there are multiple pages (links at the bottom): http://www.catvet.homestead.com/EarlyAlter.html

Oh, and there are definite health benefits to getting a female spayed before her first heat. It lessens all sorts of cancer risks, etc.


Jamiya


[This message has been edited by Jamiya (edited 09-17-2003).]

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dbuzzw
Member

Posts: 68
From:Houston, TX USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 09-17-2003 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dbuzzw     Edit/Delete Message
Regarding the question about early altering....

My female shih tzu/maltese was spayed at 5.5 months. I wanted to let her get as big as possible (6 lbs at that time), but do it BEFORE her first heat. I have read many times (sorry, can't remember exactly where) that spaying before their first heat reduces the chance of mammary cancer to 0!! That's amazing. With each "heat" that passes, the risk grows greater.

As for my male maltese/poodle, I had him neutered on his 4 month birthday. This was the earliest date my vet recommended. There seems to be a change in most attitudes from the traditional 6 months to 4 months. Again, I wanted to neuter him as soon as possible to curb the instinct to mark.

Both Baxter & Graysie did fine with the surgery and were bouncing around after one day.

Good luck!

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jeminn
Member

Posts: 166
From:Colorado, USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 09-17-2003 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jeminn     Edit/Delete Message
I will check out those websites Jamiya- thanks for all the info!

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the_maine_pitbull
Member

Posts: 251
From:Allagash, Maine USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 09-17-2003 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the_maine_pitbull     Edit/Delete Message
Well dbuzz-- SOME BIRTHDAY!! lol.. poor guy.. couldn't hav eyou done it the day after.. I would have disowned you if I were your pet.. altering me on my birthday.. Mean daddy.. go to your room!!

Angie

------------------
Alter the dog-- not the breed!

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charmedagain
Member

Posts: 240
From:uk
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 09-18-2003 05:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
there isnt just the problem of wether your baby can actually give birth without help from a vet there is also the risk that with her being so young she will not know what to do and this could result in deaths of the puppies my friends 10month old dog gave birth to 7 puppies and needed veterinary help and she is a german shepher so the size difference between her and your dog is alot. i do not beleive in early neutering or spaying as there is some complications that go along with it i usually wait until after my dogs first heat before i have this done because after this time her ovaries are more noticable and the vet isnt inside for long the longer the vet is operating the greater the risk of infections but as i always state its upto the individual owner and vet on whats best for the animal....

as to your dog needing a c section it is very likely as the male was alot bigger thus resulting in bigger puppies which a smaller dog will have trouble producing by herself... keep in touch with your vet and monitor her health and pregnancy progress everyday any signs of being unwell she should be taken straight to the vet..

the day she actually starts giving birth from the time she starts straining give her no more than 2hours if no pup is produced after this time its a sign of something wrong like a blocked puppy or breech postion puppy and needs the attention of you vet as if this isnt sought the result is i know sounds harsh but you could lose both mother and babies, as a german shepherd breeder i never take risks when it comes to my dogs and if one of mine was to be caught at 9months old i would have had her taken to a vet and the pups aborted so not to put a strain on my girls keep us posted of how she gets on i am available on msn messenger to help with any problems you may have or questions you have just drop me a line at boro_lad1976@hotmail.com and i will be happy to help you

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dbuzzw
Member

Posts: 68
From:Houston, TX USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 09-18-2003 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dbuzzw     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Maine_pitbull,

I never thought about that! Actually, I only did it on his birthday because it happened to fall on a Thursday! I wanted to have a long weekend to be with him and make sure he recuperated. Oh well, he still loves me anyway - isn't that what's so great about dogs?

P.S. I was a mean MOMMY, not daddy.

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Huskey
Member

Posts: 51
From:england
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 09-19-2003 07:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Huskey     Edit/Delete Message
if you knew that she was in season why was they left together??????? i do not know what you could do but as your puppy is at such a young age i would of thought if she is pregnant she will get very stressed out but the operation may be too much for a young pup
if this happened to me i would ask the vets advice or feed the dog up to make sure she had enought nutrients and energy to carry on with the pregnancy

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Huskey
Member

Posts: 51
From:england
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 09-19-2003 07:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Huskey     Edit/Delete Message
also if you can not afford to take the dog to the vet to give birth it would probably be the same amount if more for a cesarean and if you want to spay at the same time.....

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OwnedByAChi
Member

Posts: 29
From:Iowa
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 09-23-2003 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OwnedByAChi     Edit/Delete Message
I hate to even mention this, but they have doggie abotions. They take out the whole uterus. So she wouldnt be able to get prego agian. Letting your little girl carry this baby could hurt her or even kill her. I think this is the best way to go. That way your little girl will be happy and healthy.


Good Luck and please keep us updated

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* When you feel dog tired at night, it may be because you've growled all day * * A barking dog is more useful then a sleeping lion * * The average dog is nicer then the average person * * The reason why dogs have so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tounge *

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