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 Help WITH NEW PUPPIE!!!
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| Posted by | Topic subject: Help WITH NEW PUPPIE!!! |
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HELP New Member  Posts: 2 |
posted 09-09-2003 05:25 PM
  
I just got an 8 week old puppie a lab, and hes driving every one CRAZY! he chews ON EVERY THING!! and eats anythings thats on the FLOOR!! He likes biting you when you pet him and biting our cloths or any thing thats on us! I try screamin NO but he wont stop! and we tryed walkin HIM but every time i put on the leash he starts biting the leash and will not let go of it! are all puppies like THIS!! damn any one have any advice on help on how to get him to stop doin all these things!?! i really need some help! hes a MONSTER!! [This message has been edited by HELP (edited 09-09-2003).] IP: Logged |
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nern Member  Posts: 473 |
posted 09-09-2003 08:45 PM
Sounds like typical puppy behavior to me.  Puppies are very energetic (especially Labs)and needs lots and lots of exercise to burn off all that excess energy...this will keep him out of trouble. Also, I highly recommend getting him into puppy training classes. IP: Logged |
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Miss_vp2002 Member Posts: 21 |
posted 09-09-2003 09:12 PM
I have a Lab cross and I got it when she was also 8 weeks old and was exactly the same. They do eveutally grow out of it and like nern said they do need alot of exercise to burn off all there energy. I also took mine to puppy pre-school and she has learned quite a lot and is a very behavoured dog. If I didn't take her to it she would still be up to mischief today. When my dog was doing all of these types of things, I gave her a light tap on the bottom and sternly told her 'no' and had a deep voice when doing so, this way she'll know that you mean business. It will take time, don't expect your dog to learn over night, he'll learn eventually. Good Luck and let us know how he is doing. Jody IP: Logged |
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 31 |
posted 09-10-2003 06:02 AM
This is certainly typical puppy behavoir! So find that inner patience you will need it. First, Labs are very oral animals, my 16 week old still has everything in his mouth ALL the time! I have taught him the Leave It command. In a few posts back someone wrote how to teach it. Put your puppy on a leash. Put a treat on the floor when he attempts to lunge for it say leave it and tug gently, when he does give him a treat from another hand. I find myself saying leave it constantly but Max listens so less things in his mouth. When you are petting or playing with your dog always have one of his toys in hand. I say Don't Bite (no screaming needed they have better hearing than we do) and give him his toy. When he starts chewing it say Good boy. Praise any behavoir you like as if it's the best thing in the whole world. If you don't like what your puppy is doing show him what he should do and when he does it praise praise praise. I hear that puppies should only have buckle collars on and not choke chains so that's another tid bit. Treats are your best friend. Always have them. Now is not too early to be teaching your dog commands. Make sure one word for one meaning. Down means lay down chest to floor, Off means stay off the furniture, my leg, whatever. As soon as your puppy has four feet on the ground he's A GOOD BOY with lots of sweetness in your voice. Dogs like you to be at their level. Unfortunately I spent A LOT of time on the floor with my pup at 8 weeks so he is having a hard time adjusting to me being on 2 legs away from him. Thus he jumps a lot. I'm not sure what else to add and by far this is just the techniques that have worked for me, I'm not a dog trainer or anything just information I have gotten from obedience class and the internet. The other posters are certainly right tired puppies are good puppies. If he doesn't go for a walk, which from what I hear is normal at that age, play play play. Get some toys play fetch, get out those treats and teach commands. I'm not sure about this great advice, but I never had my puppy on a leash when he was that young. But we do live on an acre of land on a dead end road with barely any traffic. He was able to run around and get out his energy but would stay close because he had the pack instinct to be near us. OK I'm done and I hope some of that helps at least a little. IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 49 |
posted 09-10-2003 06:55 AM
Help, your puppy sounds EXACTLY like ours. We have had her for about a week and a half and I am thinking I should have stuck with my first inclination, which was to get a 2-yr-old dog that was already trained, housebroken, and gets along with cats. My husband wanted a puppy, so puppy it is and she is DRIVING US NUTS!! I have done a lot of research and everything people have already said to you is correct. I just wanted to add my support and also tell you that I am relieved to hear someone else is going through the same thing we are. Our puppy eats every little speck off the carpet. She eats sticks and nuts that fall off the trees. Her rope chew toy she pulls the fibers out of. From what I have read, this is dangerous. Squeakie toys are dangerous because they can choke on the squeaker. Frozen marrow bones are dangerous because they can break their teeth. FOR PETE'S SAKE!! What the heck *can* I give her?! She is tired of her toys. I need to rotate them more. The only good thing is that she goes in her crate at night very well, although she gets restless by morning. We put her in the crate while we ate dinner last night and although she yipped for a little bit, she did calm down after only a few minutes. We usually don't crate her when we are home since she is crated from 7:30-3:30 M-F (with an hour out at lunchtime) while we are at work. Also, with the crate in the bedroom, it is hard to bring it out to the family room because of its size (we got one that would fit her still when she is grown, but use a divider to limit her access to it while she is still small). Maybe we should buy another one to leave in the family room - but then she pulls her bed out of it and shreds it! Some days are better than others. She is starting to listen and catching on that she needs to sit to get attention. I taught her Sit right away (although she ignores it when she wants to) and I use it ALL the time to make her stop leaping around like a demented bunny. She automatically sits when I scoop her food. Sometimes, though, she gets totally out of control. This morning, for instance, she was running off some steam in the backyard before I had to leave for work (like yours, she doesn't like to go for walks - I *desperately* hope that changes). She was tearing around and then - a new thing - she started digging furiously at several spots. I tried to distract her, but she just started jumping all over me. I tried to grab her collar and she tried to bite me. She actually barked at me, too! She was completely out of control. I brought her inside and she flopped down and started to fall asleep. I think she is possessed. Oh, and you don't want to use the crate for punishment. If you need to crate puppy for your own sanity for a short time, then make sure the puppy does not associate it with being bad. Just put puppy in, no scolding, give her a command like "Kennel Up" and then tell her good dog for going in her kennel. And then just leave her there, and DO NOT let her out until she is quiet! With my puppy, I hate to take her outside on her leash all the time because she likes to run and it's good for her. When she goes berserk, I feel like I should get the leash so I can keep her under control. But then won't the leash be associated with punishment? I want her to LIKE the leash and going for walks!! Would she be able to distinguish between her walk leash and a leash used to restrain her when she is wild, do you think?
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 31 |
posted 09-10-2003 08:21 AM
Jamiya, I am in the same situation as you... I wanted to adopt this 1 year old dog from the Kennel but my husband wanted a puppy. He kept insisting that we don't know what we are getting with an older dog, that it could have behavoiral problems we might not be able to correct and that it wouldn't be so dedicated to us because it would have learned how to be alone and away from his pack.. BLAH BLAH BLAH but then I was at the Humane Society and there is little Max sitting there all alone because his litter mates had been adopted and I thought ah well I give in. After a few weeks I was totally at where you are. Why did I give in!! I could've had a dog that was already potty trained, through the hyper stage, knew how to walk on a leash and not jump!!! But yesterday I went to orientation for obedience class and here are all these people for the older class saying We adopted our *insert age older than 1yr* dog and she *insert long list of things having a previous bad owner inflicted on the dog*. I guess my point is what my husband said is right your puppy will certainly think of you as its pack because it has been with you since a tender young age. Although most behavoiral problems can be overcome, it does take a lot more hard work and patience to overcome something then it does to just teach the puppy right from the beginning. Oh well maybe I'm just trying to convince myself... and I know not all dogs at the shelter have behavoiral problems. And I'm not saying people shouldn't adopt older dogs..I just think this is a great support thread for us puppy owners that are losing their patience! I was walking Max in our woods today and he started jumping all over me he even nipped my behind and pulled my sweats down!! I am trying to just ignore this because 1. I think he is doing it to get attention 2. He seems to stop a lot quicker when I turn my back to him then if I try to scold him. Oh well I'm going to be checking this thread often in the next weeks. [This message has been edited by NewLabOwnr (edited 09-10-2003).] [This message has been edited by NewLabOwnr (edited 09-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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honeybear Member Posts: 152 |
posted 09-10-2003 08:30 AM
Help - as everyone said this is typical puppy behaviour, newlabowner and jimaya gave some excellant advice. If you have have thime You should also check for puppy school like msvp went to. They usually start them at I think abuot 12 weeks. They will teach what basicly newlabowner explained in addition to getting great socialition skills. If you do the leash thing make sure you do not use a choke collar. They are not to be used until a later age if at all. There are other recommended collars out there. It is going to take a lot of work, think of it as your own child going thru terrible 2s. Getting a puppy is a HUGE responsilbility, and if you dont spend LOTs of time now you will regret it later, and end up with bad behaviour and trying to correct issues later on. Good luck! IP: Logged |
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 31 |
posted 09-10-2003 08:35 AM
ONE MORE THING! The trainer last night did say that most dogs younger than 16 weeks aren't to into going for walks. He said you could try having someone drive you up the block 10 houses and coming back just to get them off your property. He stated that it is important to get your dog off your property because it is like the pack "going to hunt" he/she gets to smell different smells and see different spots...But he told a couple with an 11 week old to not force the dog for walks as it is normal for puppies at that age to resist that. Even Max at 16 weeks sometimes plops himself at the end of the driveway. Yesterday I took him a bike/walk path and that got him motivated to move. IP: Logged |
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jeminn Member Posts: 52 |
posted 09-10-2003 08:38 AM
I want to share some advice about teaching your puppy to learn how to walk with you on a leash. It worked for me, but not everyone may agree with this approach. I read about it in one of my training books when I got my Austrailian puppy. First you want to teach your pup to enjoy following you and to want to walk by your side off leash. Later leash training will be much easier if this in in place. Have some treats and toys handy if needed and walk away from your pup (you can do this indoors at first if you want to stay safe). Walk away from your dog and call her, patting your hands on your legs as you walk. If the dog leads or lags behind, change your pace, say "steady" or "easy" each time before you slow down or "hustle" when you speed up and your dog will learn to change pace on cue. Give treats as the dog is walking by your side with lots of praise, but keep walking. You can stop briefly for praise, but keep moving. Walk all over the house doing this, and outside-even playing hide and seek games. The whole idea is for your dog to want to be with you and listening to you as you walk and move about. Following has a lot to do with your attitude, so be happy and enthusiastic about it, encouraging her every step. You can take this to the next step of teaching the dog to heel off leash. You can practice having the dog walk on your left side (encouraged by treats, squeaky toys etc) and then when you stop, have the dog sit and reward her. Then repeat doing this several times a day. If she loses interest, try again later when she is excited about the treats and all the fun she has walking by your side. Next comes the leash....you can do this indoors or anywhere, too. Regardless of your location you must not take a single step with tension in the leash. When you attach the leash to the dogs collar, grasp the other end firmly and hold it close to your chest and STAND STILL- do not budge an inch. Wait for the dog to stop pulling and to sit or lie down. Some take awhile, some take as long as 20 minutes, so you have to be patient. Time how long it takes for your dog to sit or lay down. Gently praise the dog when she stops pulling and as soon the dog sits, praise and take just a step or two forward, then immediately stand still. THis single step demonstrates the ballistic reinforcing nature of pulling on the leash and most dogs will explode to the end of the leash, so be prepared. Stand firm, and wait for the dog to sit again. Repeat this 6 or 7 times and you will notice a progressive reduction in the force of the dog's one-step explosion's. You want the dog to learn that when it "sits" calmly, then it get's to "go and walk". And when it "pull's", we stop and wait for the pulling to stop. The dog will begin to walk forward calmly with each step and automatically sit when you stop. Go a little farther each time. If nececessary, stopping and not moving an inch if the dog is pulling on the leash. Eventually the dog will catch on that the leash means "I get to walk and have fun" (because you have already established the fun previously with treats and enthusiasm off leash). This just worked for me. My 5 month old now goes and gets her leash herself when I say "let's go"...and this was a puppy that went absolutely NUTS (at 10 weeks) when I first put a leash on her...I was doing everything backwards- trying to walk her on a leash before she learned to want to walk with me at all. The book really helped put things in perspective. Hope this helps. [This message has been edited by jeminn (edited 09-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 49 |
posted 09-10-2003 08:46 AM
You are correct about the potential problems of an older dog. However, I was looking at rescue dogs, and dogs that have been fostered in homes rather than in a shelter. Those people are usually very good at finding out the personalities of the dogs and detecting any major problems that will need to be worked out (and also beginning work on correcting those problems). And some dogs are given up for reasons like the death of an owner (rather than abuse or neglect) and so have very few hang-ups! In the case of our puppy, I was starting to be very concerned because she spent her entire puppyhood in a cage at the shelter. Fortunately, she had at least one littermate with her (probably more to begin with). I worry what this has done to her, especially when she went through her first fear stage and there was no one to work with her. At least the others here have reassured me that her behavior is normal puppy stuff, not some deranged unsocialized behavior. I am taking her to puppy class and working with her as much as I can. I get up 2 hours before work so I can let her out and play with her and get in some training before she has to go back in the crate when we leave for work. My husband goes home at lunch and lets her out and feeds her again. After I get the kids from school, she gets let out again and then someone is watching her constantly until my husband puts her back in the crate at night when he goes to bed. By that time, I have already collapsed. I am desperately trying to stay awake at work. I hear her in the crate at night and wake up often to check on her and take her out if she will be in the crate for more than 4 hours. I wish I didn't feel like I am waiting for her to grow up so I can enjoy her. I try thinking of her as a toddler and it helps, although I seem to recall that when MY kids were toddlers, I was waiting for them to get a little older so I could enjoy them....
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 31 |
posted 09-10-2003 09:07 AM
Keep writing I'll keep you awake (yes work is very slow today) =) Max is JUST sleeping through the night now at 16 weeks and last weekend we were so excited because we got to sleep till 8:45!!! What an accomplisment. We are kidless now, everyone keeps saying this is preparing us for kids. I consider it scaring us away from kids!! (just kidding of course!) I think with your love and dedication, and it sounds like you have a lot your puppy will grow up to be a well-manared happy dog. IP: Logged |
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HELP New Member Posts: 2 |
posted 09-10-2003 09:57 AM
Thanks for the advice everyone!  I never had a puppie before only kittens and cats which are much easy PETS! I had NO idea that a puppie will be so much trouble! And Iam going to spend alot more time with him and try to teach him New commands. Today where takin him to the VET! So he can be checked out to see if anythings wrong with him check for fleas stuff like that or what every vets do! We potty train him to go on newspapers, I dont know how we did it but thats the only + so far. Iam Going to try to teach him every advice you guys posted! Its really helping!Oh for the treats whats best? I dont know what to give him. And I was looking on the internet and found dog training dvd, Has any one bought or heard about it? heres a link Iam thinking about buying. I think that would be better than taking him to Training school. http://www.picturecompany.com/TrainDog/trainDog01.htm [This message has been edited by HELP (edited 09-10-2003).] [This message has been edited by HELP (edited 09-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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honeybear Member Posts: 152 |
posted 09-10-2003 10:11 AM
I just want to say thank you to all of your wonderful posts. I am going to print them out for future reference if I do decide to get a puppy again. I wish I had all this advice when I went thru it. Honeybear IP: Logged |
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Seb New Member Posts: 7 |
posted 09-10-2003 10:44 AM
I hear you Labs are chewers and are hyperactive when they are puppies. My lab is 7 years old now and believe me, all your efforts will be rewarded once your dog is properly trained...they are great dogs but they are chewers and do need a lot of attention. It is crucial that you establish yourself as the pack leader as soon as possible and BE PATIENT. You must be consistent and never take anything for granted, your dog needs to be trained everyday...small sessions..but everyday. As far as doing her "business" inside, you have to make sure to use a product that will get rid of the odour, if your dog still smells your floor as her "spot", he will continue to use the spot. Always praise your dog A LOT when he does his business outside, you can give a cookie as well, eventually your dog will understand but labs are big babies until they are about 2...however this issue must be fixed soon..and it will...with patience. Dont worry, everything will work out great...it's all about patience, loving and consistency. Labs are great, be patient, you will be rewarded. Good luck, email me if you have other questions...I'll try to answer as best as I can. Seb IP: Logged |
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honeybear Member Posts: 152 |
posted 09-10-2003 12:52 PM
Another pointer that my husband keeps telling me to do. I think it was also mentioned in one of the other posts. Our dog does pretty good off leash - she listens to my husband but ahs trouble listneing to me. So when I tell her to "come" and she doesnt, my husband tells me I am re-enforcing her she doesnt have to listen. So he says when I say come, I better mean it and make her come and with a stern voice so she know I mean business. I know there are similar ways. I am just trying to say that you need to follow thru with the commands properly so they know they need to repsond to them. IP: Logged |
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Seb New Member Posts: 7 |
posted 09-10-2003 02:29 PM
You should try a very long leash (rope) and when your dog does not come, pull him to you and praise him...never get angry at the dog if he finally comes to you as he will get confused. The rope thing worked for me...you pull the dog and when he is with you, praise, give a cookie! ...even if you had to pull the dog the whole way. The dog has to associate that listening = good! It's all about patience. And once your dog gets a little older, you shouldnt have to repeat a command more than once...and it's way more fun this way. How many people do you see in parcs yelling come come come come come come...and the dog only comes back when he wants...you dont want this, it's no fun! However, dont expect too much out of an 8 weeks old puppy! hope this helps [This message has been edited by Seb (edited 09-10-2003).] [This message has been edited by Seb (edited 09-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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jeminn Member Posts: 52 |
posted 09-10-2003 03:17 PM
I like to use Bil-Jac small liver treats. They are like a small kibble and come in a little milk carton container. I like using a very small, very tasty treat because you don't want your dog to spend a whole lot of time chewing something up when you are training. So make it small and make it really good- but only use them during your training so they really look forward to listening to you and pleasing you. Alternate with other goodies- sometimes it takes a little trial and error before you find that special something that really makes your puppy want to please. That is key though- I tried all sorts of things and finally hit the jackpot with little liver treats. About the biting issue- with a stubborn little pup sometimes you do have to be a little more firm. It is good advice about responding as a mother dog, that is exactly what you have to do. Sometimes you have to even pick up the pup by the scruff of it's neck, like a mother would, to get your dog settled down if it is acting like a maniac and not listening. You can teach another command with this which is "settle down" in a firm, soft tone. That is what a mother dog is doing when she picks up her pup like that, in a sense. The command comes in handy, though. Also, if you need another alternative when the dog bites you, you can firmly grip the dog's muzzle with your hand and firmlyl say, NO BITING. Sometimes you might even get their lips between their teeth and gums and this is most effective. I do not resort to this unless nothing else works because I never want my hands to be associated with pain- but when you have a biter, you have to get it under control. If your dog jumps up on you, you can say "OFF" or "NO FEET" and walk the dog backwards on his back feet. Sometimes they will think this becomes a game though, so it depends on the dog as to how they will respond to that. I found that my aussie loves to walk on her back legs, so this didn't work well for me. I decided to make the most of it though and I am teaching her to walk on her two back feet, since she seems to have the coordination to do it. If the dog is bigger and it still jumps on you, or other people, set the dog up for a lesson. Put the dog on it's leash and let someone come up to the dog and call it to jump on them. You give a firm correction with "OFF" or "NO FEET"..whatever command you decide to use for that behavior and pull the dog down. Do not let the person touch or pet the dog unless it sits quietly or stands on all fours. Let the person give the dog some treats at that point (when it is not jumping up)and you can praise the heck out of her then, but do not let her jump. Repeat this with anyone who is willing to work with you, - encourage them to ask the dog to jump up, and with your coorection your dog will learn quickly to stay off people. When your dog is chewing on things it shouldn't, teach him to "leave it" but ALWAYS replace it with an appropriate chewy and get really excited about it. My aussie loves to chew on my kids stuffed animal toys. I bought her her own stuffed animal and we call it "WOOFY". So, when she is after something in my kids rooms I always tell her, "Leave it"..then I say.."Get your WOOFY" and she goes crazy looking for it. I also have a box full of bones, chewys, her leash etc and she knows where all her goodies are. Teach your pup to find her toys, and to put them away in her special box. Name them and teach her which one is which. You would be suprised how much this keeps them out of mischief. Dogs love to have jobs. So, whatever you discipline for, have an appropriate, happy alternative and your dog will pick up on what is desirable much faster. It is all about learning how to communicate with each other and you really have to think like a dog. Labs are completely obnoxious until they are about 2 years old- so you have to channel all that energy into acceptable behaviors, and expect some mischief for a while. The key is to have FUN and build a strong bond with yoru puppy. You might also want to get your pup a retrieving dummy- they love to have things to retrieve. And if you have a park with water close by and it isn't getting too cool yet- take your puppy swimming, and teach him to retrieve his dummy,it will wear him out! Hang in there- it will all be worth it! IP: Logged |
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jeminn Member Posts: 52 |
posted 09-10-2003 03:33 PM
One more thought- when you take your puppy out to play, or to the park- have a long rope like Seb suggested so you can ALWAYS call your dog and reinforce the "COME" command. You do not want to get in the habit of chasing your dog or you will have problems forever. NEVER chase her, always have some way of controlling your puppy, but letting her have some fun and freedom too. Let your pup run around with the rope- I use about a 10 foot rope and let my Aussie go when we are on hikes etc. When it is time for her to come back to me, I pick up the rope (before I give the command) and then say "JULES, COME"..and pull her in right to my feet, make her sit, and give her lots of praise and a treat or two. Then I let her go play again and repeat this again a five or ten minutes later. It really aides in training, and keeps your puppy safe while you are out playing because you can always reel her in when you command her to come and you may need to keep her out of harms way if she decides to chase something or run too far away from you. OK- I am done, I promise! IP: Logged |
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charmedagain Member Posts: 77 |
posted 09-11-2003 09:45 AM
hi there yes first off this is very typical puppy behaviour but as i dog breeder i would not advice giving into your pup you need to be the one thats dominent one not the puppy as you say you have shouted at him and he wont listen this is him showing you he is boss which all puppies like doing until he learns when you say no you mean it then he will carry this on... as for the walking a puppy you have to make some go for walks but a puppy shouldnt be taking for a long walk like you would an adult one and should have had all there injections before going for walks... IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 49 |
posted 09-11-2003 10:49 AM
More reassurance, please... If I just keep being consistent even though I see very little progress now, it will pay off.....right?! (Firmly) "Off!" (Place puppy feet on floor) "Nala, sit." (Sit puppy if she doesn't do it herself) "Good sit! Good dog!" (Much petting)
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 31 |
posted 09-11-2003 11:29 AM
I sure hope consistency is the key too =/ The jumping thing is out of control. IP: Logged |
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honeybear Member Posts: 152 |
posted 09-11-2003 11:44 AM
it is consistency - dont give up , when my lab was that age, he was very stubborn - I did give up on some of the training, I had a very hectic work schedule at the time. Well I regret it. He is pretty good because he is getting older 6 1/12, but things I still dont like is his jumping on people when they come over. and the come issue. I think I may try to work with him - hopfully he is not too old to do this, Honeybear IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 49 |
posted 09-11-2003 12:09 PM
From the myriad of things I have read about dog training in the last few weeks, you CAN teach an old dog new tricks, and it is never too late. Probably, as with everything else, the key is that when you change YOUR habits, the dog will change his as well.
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jeminn Member Posts: 52 |
posted 09-11-2003 12:18 PM
When you teach your pup to sit, again try not to use your hands. For one, it can be painful to them to have their rear end pushed down, even if you do it ever so gently. Two, you want your dog to listen to your voice and the command. Call your pup to you and with a treat, hold the treat just up over it's head- and see if you can get your pup to sit to look up at your treat. You might have to let him smell it to get his attention first. As he sits, give him the treat and lots of praise then. Repeat this over and over. Your pup may jump with enthusiasm, but that is ok- the point of the lesson was to sit, and if your pup sat and you gave him the treat and praise- he will eventually get the idea. Try not to force your puppy to do things, but encourage him to do them on his own. You can work on the other commands gradually as you gain some control, but your pup is very young to expect much at this point. You can be working towards these commands and yes, consistency, repetition and lots of loving praise is the key. You will be on your way to building the kind of relationship you want to have with your dog, and it WILL pay off. Be paitent though- you have several weeks ahead of you before things will start to get better. A strong happy bond of love and trust is what is most important at this stage and you will have a best friend for life. Honeybear and Newlabowner- do you have friends or family members who you can help you with your dog? Set your lab up for a lesson on not jumping up on them, if you have some willing participants. Do you have a good collar on your dog that will give your lab a responsive correction when you give your command? If your dog is big, strong-willed and able bodied you might need a different kind of collar that will give you more control without yanking down too hard. When I did obedience training at a boarding and training kennel we worked on this all the time with people and their dogs and it was usually taken care of in just a couple of lessons, if done correctly. IP: Logged |
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honeybear Member Posts: 152 |
posted 09-11-2003 01:57 PM
Jeminn, I will give it a try And recruit a few friends to help - his stubborness has just goetten worse as he gets older, but I do have a lot of company and it is embarrasing when he jumps. I will take the motto " you can teach a a old dog new tricks" but I am off to vacation today and wont be back for 2 weeks Honeybear IP: Logged |
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 31 |
posted 09-11-2003 03:01 PM
jeminn Max is a very socialized dog. We take him a lot of places so he will be used to being around people. Not to mention soccer games, hiking and camping as well as picnics are things we loved to do and we want to be able to take him with us. So we are practicing with other people but it still doesn't seem to help. We are taking obedience class which starts with the dogs this week. I will talk to the trainer about maybe getting a different coller as I to think that might help. He has the biggest problem with my husband and I. If he wants attn and we aren't giving it to him thats it he's jumping and nipping. But we went to a soccer game yesterday and I don't htink he jumped on anyone when he was getting petted. I don't know.. he's only 16 weeks and he's very smart so I know we can work through it especially with obedience class coming up. Thanks for hte support! IP: Logged |
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 31 |
posted 09-11-2003 03:02 PM
jeminn Max is a very socialized dog. We take him a lot of places so he will be used to being around people. Not to mention soccer games, hiking and camping as well as picnics are things we loved to do and we want to be able to take him with us. So we are practicing with other people but it still doesn't seem to help. We are taking obedience class which starts with the dogs this week. I will talk to the trainer about maybe getting a different coller as I to think that might help. He has the biggest problem with my husband and I. If he wants attn and we aren't giving it to him thats it he's jumping and nipping. But we went to a soccer game yesterday and I don't htink he jumped on anyone when he was getting petted. I don't know.. he's only 16 weeks and he's very smart so I know we can work through it especially with obedience class coming up. Thanks for hte support! OH I also wanted to ask about the sitting thing. I KNOW max knows how to sit. He does it on command, when we feed him and if we have a treat or toy in hand he automatically sits, but sometimes he just ignores us.. what should we do in that situation just get his attn and do the treat over the head thing? Thanks again! IP: Logged |
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 31 |
posted 09-11-2003 03:02 PM
jeminn Max is a very socialized dog. We take him a lot of places so he will be used to being around people. Not to mention soccer games, hiking and camping as well as picnics are things we loved to do and we want to be able to take him with us. So we are practicing with other people but it still doesn't seem to help. We are taking obedience class which starts with the dogs this week. I will talk to the trainer about maybe getting a different coller as I to think that might help. He has the biggest problem with my husband and I. If he wants attn and we aren't giving it to him thats it he's jumping and nipping. But we went to a soccer game yesterday and I don't htink he jumped on anyone when he was getting petted. I don't know.. he's only 16 weeks and he's very smart so I know we can work through it especially with obedience class coming up. Thanks for hte support! OH I also wanted to ask about the sitting thing. I KNOW max knows how to sit. He does it on command, when we feed him and if we have a treat or toy in hand he automatically sits, but sometimes he just ignores us.. what should we do in that situation just get his attn and do the treat over the head thing? Thanks again! IP: Logged |
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Maisey Member Posts: 309 |
posted 09-11-2003 03:55 PM
So many great posts! Jamiya, LMBO at your completely serious sounding comment..."I think she is possessed" I laughed so hard when I read that! I told my pups "NO DIG" and then distracted them. Witt does the same thing when he is on what we call a "spaz" he runs around like he is on street drugs, tries to get us to play by barking at us, sometimes he even does stuff he knows is naughty just to get a rise, then runs around again as if celebrating that he managed to get it. As soon as we step back in the house he plops down and dozes off to sleep. IP: Logged |
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jeminn Member Posts: 52 |
posted 09-11-2003 05:23 PM
Newlabowner- From the way it sounds, you may not have established who is the alpha- I think Max jumps on you, your husband, ignores your sit commands (unless he wants something and will do it if he feels like it) because he does not look at you as the alpha, and more of a sibling. He'll do what he feels like doing and can get away with it. Sometimes that is listening to you and sometimes it isn't- part of this is age, and part of it could be the way he sees you- as more of a sibling or playmate. Your training sessions and obedience classes should help with the problem, but you need to address that before he is going to respond and respect your commands consistently. Ask the trainer about it- hopefully he or she can see it firsthand and know how to help you address it. He is young, only 16 weeks and seems to be on the right track, overall. I imagine in your classes you may have you be alittle more firm, use a stiffer tone of voice and be very consistent with your expectations and commands. Max will test you and you need to know how to handle it. Sounds like Max is just being a pretty normal lab, too- but, you need to show him who is in control, he is getting away with some things that are teaching him that is ok to not listen if he doesn't want to. About the sitting- there is a fine line in overdoing it with treats for rewards, I think. You want to balance that out in your training sessions to not let your dog assume he will always get a treat for doing what you say. You want your dog to listen to you no matter what, or where you are. Praise and attention from you should also be enough for your dog to listen, as you won't always have that treat handy in certain situations. Treats are a very useful tool, and can certainly help get things off to a good start, don't get me wrong- but also include some training time with just praise. I think Max will learn to sit on command as he progresses in his training, gets a little older, and you learn more from your classes. You can also lift up from the underside of his collar, below his neck to achieve the same motion of him lifting his head and naturally sitting, instead of pushing down on his rearend. As you do this you can stroke his back and encourage him to sit on his own accord. Your tone may have to be firm, but gentle. It is always good to associate your calming behavior with your dog's natural motion to sit. You can also put your hand up over his head as if you did have a treat to get him to sit, but reward with praise instead. When we worked with Labs at the training kennel, (for hunting and field trial work) sometimes we did not even start them until they were 7-8 months old, so you have time- and Max seems to be on the right track. We never used treats at the kennel for obedience training and field trial work- only praise. I always snuck a few treats in my pockets though and I think it made the dogs look more forward to training with me than anyone else! Get the nipping under control asap and ask the trainer for specific actions you need to take to work with Max on that. Max needs to respect you, and your husband first and foremost and it sounds like he may be challenging you there- which is pretty normal for a lab. Keep us posted on your progress! [This message has been edited by jeminn (edited 09-11-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 49 |
posted 09-12-2003 06:48 AM
I was using the lure method to teach our puppy to sit, but the trainer told us we should have contact with the dog (i.e. gentle pressure on the rear end). I never do this unless she ignores my command. She knows how to sit and does it when she wants to, so I make her do it when she does NOT want to because she needs to obey EVERY time. I can't let her get away with ignoring a command and I don't want to repeat it a hundred times either, like I am coaxing her to respond. She's just too darn smart, though. The trainer said to always train her with her collar and leash on (we use the Gentle Leader collar when training - it's great! Maybe Max should have one as well...). But now when I get the collar out, she plops on her butt and looks at me, because she knows she needs to perform now to get the treats. It seems to me that it would be better to train her impromptu, when she is not expecting it, although it is hard to get control of her if she is being resistent unless she has her leash on (she always has her regular collar on).
I am trying to teach the Leave It command, but she did something yesterday that disturbed me. First, she would chase the cat that refuses to run. He stands and growls and hisses and swats at her, so she stays out of his reach and hops around and barks - I think she just wants to play. She won't listen to me unless I go over right next to her. I told her "Leave It!" and she actually did, so I praised her lavishly and gave her a treat. Then she went back to pestering the cat. She ignored me until I went over to her again and said "Leave It!" and then she trotted happily with me back to my chair and waited for a treat. Rinse and repeat. So now I am thinking that I am training her to chase the cats when she wants a treat. There is no other way to stop her once she is at it, though. I can't leave a leash on her because she chews it, no matter what we put on it. I decided to try just grabbing her without a word and tossing her outside alone for a minute or two. I did this about 4 times, and I'm not sure if it was having any effect or not. And then I read that you should NEVER use isolation as a punishment for a puppy. Arrrgh! How can I NOT give her attention for chasing the cats and yet reward her for leaving off all at the same time?!
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 31 |
posted 09-12-2003 08:14 AM
I think the same thing when I give Max treats for OFF. We don't give treats anymore EVERY time he does a command but with the Off command I give them more consistently because that is what he needs to work on most. The off the leash training time though is when he starts to have selective hearing with us. I read that you shouldn't set your puppy up to fail but I do want to test him with distrations. Oh my I can't imagine what I'm going to be like when I have kids. I over analyze everything I do with Max as it is. I guess I just need to learn to relax and take it as it comes. I think jeminn you might be right. Max probably does see me as a playmate because I'm always on the floor playing with him. I can't help it I love the little guy. I will try to work on establishing my alpha roll. I have to laugh Jamiya I put tabasco sauce on Max's leash the other day and he just sat there and licked it. Go figure. He mostly just plays tug of war with it and us on walks but I simply stop walking and he drops it immediately and I start walking again. Sometimes he starts again so I stop walking again... Did your trainer mention anything about transitioning from the Gentle Leader to off leash training? I wanted to try it but our trainer said it would be much more difficult for that tranisition. Not sure why really and haven't read anything about it. Oh well we had a great morning and Max listened well so I guess we are seeing improvements. [This message has been edited by NewLabOwnr (edited 09-12-2003).] IP: Logged |
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jeminn Member Posts: 52 |
posted 09-12-2003 08:24 AM
I still have problems with my 5 month old aussie wanting to chase my cats. I understand where you are coming from and I too did the same thing with the treats, then wondered if I was training her to chase the cats for a reward. It is exhausting work to stay on top of a dog that wants to chase, and the poor cats do not deserve the harrassment. It is just very, very hard thing to get across with dogs that have a lot of natural instinct to herd, like my aussie, or dogs that the natural instinct to retrieve, like your lab, let alone all the preying breeds that have to deal with learning that cats are pets, and not to be hunted! My old Husky who is now 16 finally doesn't chase anymore but it is only because she is old! I think again it is patience, consistency and finding the right method to the maddness- it can all get a little confusing, I know, but I do think with time it will get better. What works for some people may not work for you- keep getting advice from trainers and from these boards and you will probably find some way of eventaully controlling that behavior- that is what I am doing anyway- by trial and error for some things! IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 49 |
posted 09-12-2003 08:42 AM
I'm not really sure what my puppy is, but my best guess would be border collie, beagle, lab, maybe terrier? So she has a lot of chasing in her. I read that it is bad for cats to always be on guard, because of the constant heightened adrenaline. I hate to think I may be jeaopardizing the health or lifespan of my cats - Patches was my very first baby and I will be lost without him! Both cats were lying up on a card table we set up in the "dog room" so they could have the high ground. Puppy was leaving them alone (only because she was dead asleep), but poor Patches kept hissing anyway - I finally realized that he was hissing every time he felt something touch his tail, which in this case just happened to be the other cat's tail! Poor kitty. My husband thinks we should just encourage the cats to stay on the other side of the gate, but they want to be in the room with the people in it so that solution is not a good one. I may buy another kitty climber so they have another high place to go in the family room (with all my spare money, of course!).
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jeminn Member Posts: 52 |
posted 09-12-2003 08:48 AM
It is also important to remember that treats should be used to reinforce good behavior and not as reward for stopping something bad. That can cause a lot of confusion, depending the the situation, the timing and circumstances of the negative behavior. My Aussie becomes completely possessed about one of my cats in particular, when he enters the room. My other cat doesn't mind the bath my aussie gives him, so she doesn't do much with him but lick him to death, and that satisfies her interest. He is a most unusual cat though to tolerate a bath from my dog, the paws in his face, the pure and utter joy my dog gets from being able to sniff every inch of this creature, licking his ears inside and out. The other cat is much more of a challenge because he refuses to allow any contact whatsoever, so this makes him especially enticing. At first, I did what you were doing with the treats for not chasing the cats...but worried that I was reinforcing that behavior to get that treat. So, now when the opportunity presents itself and my aussie goes after my one cat that does not like her, I grab my aussie by the scruff of her neck (like a mother dog would do), lift her front legs off the ground so she knows I mean business, and I give her a firm "LEAVE IT" command in a loud voice, down by her face. Sometimes I put the cat in my daughter's bedroom after this correction, and close the door to give the poor thing some peace, and to show my dog that she gets no contact when she acts like this. I believe the correction has to be related to the behavior so the dog gets it. If you go and give her a treat after correcting her, you are reinforcing the dog to act up for that treat. If I do not put the cat away or he runs off in another direction, I release my dog, and if she takes off again, I will repeat the whole thing over if needed. Then, if I have had enough-and can see she is not going to leave the cat alone, I put her outside with a ball and just redirect her behavior. Not to punish or isolate her but to do something more entertaining than chasing my cat. Sometimes I will play with her, and sometimes I will leave her be. IP: Logged |
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Maisey Member Posts: 309 |
posted 09-12-2003 09:14 AM
Where did you read you should never use isolation for punishment? I personlly don't think you are teaching her to chase the cats...I think puppies have a short attention span and she forgets just that quickly. I have never tossed one of my dogs outside as a consequence for their action...but I have used a time out in a their kennel, yes I know the theory about using the kennel for punishment I just don't agree with it, at leaste so far as the dogs I have. They love napping on their own in their kennels, they don't see it as a punishment box. I do send them for a time out in the kennel when one of them is out of control. Not very often, but I do. They know when they are going in the kennel because they are in trouble or when it's because we are leaving, and they know the difference. Every dog is different and will require adjustments in all these "rules" of training. What works for one may not work for another. There are also many training styles out there, there is nothing wrong with combining techniques from different styles. My Aussie mix would fall apart and shut down if I yelled at him, he needs a soft but firm tone, he will work for a pat on the keister and think he got the best reward ever. If he makes a mistake we try again, but we keep it short, he gets overloaded quickly, and we always end on a good note. Witt on the other hand sounds more like your pup, bouncing off the walls, full of exuberance, everything is a game. He is big, very playful and the first to get into trouble. he is also very alpha and stubborn. I could yell at him and it would slide right off his back, he wouldn't care. He is extremely treat driven, will work for food and can be very focussed while I have treats in hand. He defies the short period of time rule for working with your puppy. I can work with him for 30 - 40 minutes at a time easily. He is also a velcro dog, he wants to be next to me at all times. When he does something wrong and a voice command is ignored ( like when he is wound up, hyper playing is not listening) I will put him in his kennel for 5 minutes. Before he can come out he has to be sitting and quiet. When I do this, I make sure that I leave the room his kennel is in, because him being separated from me is sure to get his attention. It works well for him, when he is released ALL his attention is on me, and we take that moment to go over the command he ignored. You could go to ten different dog trainers and get ten different opinions about how to get a resulting behavior you want from your dog, not only one of those trainers is correct...they could all be correct. You have to choose a method that you feel comfortable with and your dog responds to. These boards are great because you get so many opinions and suggestions, you can pick through and find what sounds good to you and try it out. My training experience is with horses, and at that only a bit more that the basics, but I don't think it is so much different with dogs. I like what I am teaching to make sense to the dog, being a good trainer is being able to adapt to each dog and getting results in a humane way. I think it is a mistake to try and make every dog conform to one set of techniques, and I think it can cause frustration in a pet owner to try and make that happen. I love the moment when you see the light go on in a dogs eyes, when they GET IT finally! How you get there is sometimes a windy path. With a puppy, consistency is important, patience is a must timing is everything. Your pup may be doing really well with a command for weeks and then suddenly seem to forget it all together. Thats when you break it down into steps again and start with step one. You have chosen to make it a rule to never feed your dogs scraps....., I have a friend whose dog is not allowed in her kitchen while she is in there. I feed mine raw meat and vegetables every night off my cutting board as I prepare dinner for my family. Mine are very well behaved and don't beg, they understand taking turns, have soft mouths when taking food from my hand and have learned many tricks during these treat and train sessions at my cutting board. I use that time to teach and I hate cooking so it makes it more fun for me! All different rules, and all fine. I prefer to give full access to my house while I am present, to the dogs from the day I get them, I see it as an "immersion teaching program" of sorts. It is fine that you want to break it down into steps and work on them in an order, that works for you, as long as you can live with it and get results. It's easy to get overwhelmed with all the techniques and rules, the do's and the don't's, whats right and whats wrong, pretty soon you aren't enjoying your dog anymore, or having a fun experience. I say keep a good sense of humor, be willing to try new things, be open to new ideas, hug your dog often, and pass along what you learn. IP: Logged |
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