posted 07-31-2003 12:00 PM         

[This message has been edited by puttin510 (edited 07-31-2003).]

posted 08-01-2003 12:34 AM         

I have been told by my Vet, that a lot of dogs are allergic to Corn, so it is best to avoid Corn at all.
He did say there are a few exceptions. One is if a pet has IBD, as Corn is a firming agent and is easier on the stomach.

While I don't really care for Science Diet or Eukanuba, I do know of a few cases were it is the only food the pet will eat, a prescription formula has helped the pet, or it is the only food that the pet can tolerate.
I don't really care for Eukanuba or Science Diet because of their high content of fillers and an abundance of corn.

posted 08-01-2003 01:21 AM            

So.....here's the deal. Just like human food, lots of additives for color, texture or whatever are not good. Most animals will tolerate them to a degree but any animal that is having trouble should have a food that is as devoid of them as possible. Corn isn't necessarily bad. It is very bad if your animal is allergic to corn. Corn and rice are both carbs so lamb and rice isn't any better than chicken or beef and corn. However, if the animal is having allergic symptoms to any food; change the food and select one with different ingredients. Realize that dogs are not straight carnivores but omnivores. A straight carnivore tends to have a shorter digestive tract like a cat. Also realize that when a carnivore makes a kill it eats the entrails first. They have the most nutritional value for the animal. In other words...the meat by products are the prized food not the meat.

Another big cause of problems is table scraps. My aunt got her toy poodle into such bad shape that its skin was a mass of sores and it was too fat to make it up stairs. Table scraps are NOT a balanced meal. For small dogs, even a small scrap can make up too much of it's diet. Watch the treats for the same reason.

I could go on but....

posted 08-01-2003 10:03 AM            

Puck I have a question...

"Also realize that when a carnivore makes a kill it eats the entrails first. They have the most nutritional value for the animal. In other words...the meat by products are the prized food not the meat."

I am not sure what "entrails" are... and I may be misunderstanding you, but in the wild, "by products" do not contain metal bits, chemicals or other unnatural contents, those would be a major concern for me in food purchased for my dog.
I don't have a degree in nutrition, I wish I did, it would make understanding all this alot easier and I might be able to manage my own diet better! LOL, but I am trying to learn whats best for my dog. I have three, and all have different needs and all are on different food. The one I have the hardest time with is the dog who gets kidney stones, they had him on SD/CD. He needs a food low in protien (18% or lower), low in magnesium and phosphorus, and it has to have DL-Methionine in it. I searched until I found a food that had both but also had Whole grains, and no artificial preservatives and no meat by products. I found a senior food called Precise that had all of that. I am still looking for an even better one, but finding one with the dl-methionine and low protien is a challenge.
I also have an 8 month old puppy and a two year old Aussie X that is very athletic, plays flyball on a team and needs a really good food to support his activity level.

Nessa, I like Canidae and Innova and there are MANY brands out there that have good quality ingredients, finding one that works well for your dog is whats important. I am still looking and learning. Whats important to me for my dogs may differ from what is for you and your dog. I also feed some raw food...my challenge is learning how to make sure they are all three getting balanced meals. I want to make sure they are getting all that they need, so I keep reading.

posted 08-01-2003 11:17 AM         

I wouldn't feed Hills Science Diet or Eukanuba/Iams. I don't like foods full of chemical additives and artificial preservatives. Also as a part of a marketing ploy there are low quality products that come with high sounding names and these brands have been suddenly cashing in on the words "Natural", "wholesome" "holistic" when in really they couldn't be further from it. The sad thing is that vets do not spend a great deal of time learning about nutrition. P&G, Hills pay for a large part of schooling.

Ingredients I don't like in SD food:
*Animal fat usually a generic fat source most often made up of rendered animal fat, restaurant grease, or rancid oils unfit for humans consumption) - become trans fats
* By products (any cheap source that can be thrown into the food)
*Brewers rice (isn't this what is used from making alcohol
* Corn gluten Meal - filler and gives no idea what part of the corn was used. (the better quality foods, if using corn will use whole corn)
*BHA, BHT, propyl gallate - possible cancer causing chemical preservative
* Salt - totally unnecessary
*Soybean meal - cheap protein filler, again "meal" - no stating what part of the soybean used Is also harder to digest
* Chicken Liver Flavor (eeks?? Flavor? Why not just use real chicken liver to flavor instead of some chemical?)
* Vegetable oil - wouldn't feed cooked oils

I don't like the use of grains and other products as the main content of the diet. I would really prefer a diet that had 2 or 3 meat sources listed first.

I don't care for the prescription diets either, I don't see the reasoning in using a specially formulated food that is supposed to make a dog better, but chalked full of chemicals.

posted 08-01-2003 06:40 PM         

What about Pet Stores such as Petsmart who carry numerous lower quality foods? So they are in it for the money and don't care about animals?

What about Shelters who feed lower quality foods? They don't care about animals?

My point is, just because a Vet, Store, or Shelter carry or feed Science Diet or Eukunuba doesn't mean they only care about money and don't care about animals!!!

My Vet is willing to let clients decided what is best, encourages clients to do research, look at other possibilities, allows a client to special order medication and food, volunteers in the community, has space set aside for cats who would other wise be put to sleep, has waived all bills for a pet who really needed care... and yes, he does carry Science Diet and Eukanuba.

posted 08-01-2003 07:11 PM            

quote:

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My point is, just because a Vet, Store, or Shelter carry or feed Science Diet or Eukunuba doesn't mean they only care about money and don't care about animals!!!

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posted 08-01-2003 07:44 PM         

Again for pet stores like petsmart etc. retail is their business, the more variety of products they can carry the more profitable their business. The basis of pet stores is selling products, most of the employees are not certified experts in animal health and nutrition - - yes, usually they care about our pets and are helpful, but this is a bonus as far as Im concerned. When you go the grocery store and buy a case of Kraft dinner - would you expect the cashier to care about what you eat for dinner and say "excuse me but shouldn't you be eating a salad instead of that garbage"?

Animal Shelters will feed what ever food they can get. They gladly accept food donations of any quality but are there to take in stray animals, so its not about "not caring" or caring, its about making sure the hundreds of dogs have at least some food to eat.

If someone's dog is doing well on the food, great keep feeding it, if not look to alternatives. The orignal poster was asking for peoples opinions to help themselves make an informed choice. With a topic like food, naturally we will get diverse opinions, doesn't mean anyone cares less/more than any other.

posted 08-01-2003 11:45 PM            

Chemical additives aren't meat by-products. They are chemical that are added to that the feed doesn't go bad as fast or looks better to humans. After all, we buy the stuff.

Personally, none of the dog foods that I've ever found is exactly what I'm looking for. It's kind of like buying a car. I want functional: a couple hundred miles to the gal, only needs the oil changed every 5 years, only needs a tune up every 10, doesn't polute, does 65 on any grade (mountains around here), costs less than $10k, and seats 6 easily. Instead all the car companies concentrate on selling sex and egos.

Dog food companies are the same way. They sell focused on what people want. Color consistency means nothing in terms of nutrition but the companies demand it because it reassures the human purchaser. The result is artificial color. At least the better foods haven't gone completely crazy. Just think we could have Lucky Charms for dogs.