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Posted by Topic subject:   ? FOR ROTTYMOMMY !
TRACY
Member

Posts: 10
From:GEORGIA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 06-06-2003 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TRACY     Edit/Delete Message
HEY ROTTYMOMMY,

I JUST READ YOUR POST FROM 5/28/03 ABOUT DOGS KNOWING WHERE THEIR STATUS IS IN A PACK( BETA, OMEGA).
FOR ME THE WHOLE THING IS CONFUSING BUT IT REALLY DOESN'T TAKE MUCH TO CONFUSE ME, BUT THAT'S NOT MY QUESTION.
WHAT KIND OF BOTHERED ME WAS I NOTICED AT THE END OF YOUR POST YOU GAVE A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES HOW YOU ESTABLISHED WHO WAS WHAT. "SHE WALKS OUT SIDE FIRST, IS FED FIRST, GETS PETTED FIRST, THE WHOLE DEAL. "
I PERSONALLY WOULD NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE DOING THAT TO JUST ONE OF MY DOGS, IT WOULD SEEM LIKE I'M PLAYING FAVORITES, AND IF IN FACT THAT'S WHAT I'M DOING THEN WHY EVEN HAVE MORE THAN ONE DOG. THERE LIFE WOULD SEEM TO THEM LESS MEANINGFUL THAN YOUR OTHER DOG. I JUST DON'T SEE HOW THE DOG THAT DOESN'T GET PET FIRST, OR GO OUT THE DOOR FIRST IS GOING TO BE A VERY HAPPY AND LOVING DOG.
I HAVE TWO HOUND PUPPIES AND I TRY TO GIVE EACH OF THEM THE SAME ATTENTION, SO THAT ONE DOESN'T FEEL LEFT OUT. YOU CAN SEE THEM GIVE YOU THAT SAID PUPPY LOOK, LIKE YOU DON'T LOVE THEM AS MUCH AS THE OTHER.
MAYBE IT'S JUST ME, I'M NOT DISSING YOU IN ANYWAY BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE WHOLE REASONING IS BEHIND THAT STATMENT.
I WILL SAY THAT I'M YOUNG AND STILL LEARNING AND THESE TWO PUPS ARE MY FIRST EVER. ( I'VE BEEN A CAT PERSON MY WHOLE LIFE, BUT MY BROTHER AND SISTER HAVE HAD DOGS GROWING UP IT'S JUST THAT I'VE NEVER ACTUALLY OWNED ONE).
THANKS,
TRACY

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RottyMommy

Moderator

Posts: 343
From:Harrisburg,PA USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 06-07-2003 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy   Click Here to Email RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
Ok let me see if I can explain myself clearly about the whole post. I noticed right away I made a mistake in it. Ok you dont have as much of an issue cuz you have 2 dogs you have to have 3 or more for it to be considered a pack. Things change when you add a 3rd dog into the household trust me. As far as pack order goes the humans in the house are alpha. Top dogs if you will. SOmetimes you have to make that clear especially if you have children. As far as the rest of the order of the pack. Consider that after you humans the lines split females on one side males on the other. If you have a female in the house she will 99% of the time be your beta dog. Next in line to you. Then if you had another female and a male they would follow behind. But wouldnt fight for position because they are on two separate lines if you will. If you had 3 females you would have your beta dog, a female in the middle and than your Omega which is bottom of the pack. You tend to have alot of issues with this. The two at the bottom fight for position. In a dogs pack order is set and known. For instance when I brought Daisy in my 3 year old rotty I already had Oreo who is 14 my mix and Abby my 2 year old rotty. When Daisy came in she knew right away that Oreo was grandma so to speak and never messed with her. SHe knew also that Abby was beta. SOmetimes you have a beta dog come in to a household where there is already a beta dog and that is when you have to set ground rules. Figure out who is Beta dog and stick with it. All the dogs know that Abby is beta so I just reinforce that. When I let the dogs outside I dont take one out at a time they all go out together. But they go out in line. Not in line that I choose but in line to the pack order I dont make them do it. Abby goes first than Oreo sometimes and than Daisy sometimes Oreo follows behind Daisy depends on her mood and whether she wants to go in front of her or not. Abby as the respected beta is always first, Daisy will actually stand at the door and let Abby go through. Daisy isnt loved any less nor does she feel like she is. As far as being petted first. I dont sit there and pet Abby for 10 minutes as Daisy is whining or anything. They will both come in and I will just reach out to Abby first with only like a second difference between the two. However, if I dont do that little thing Daisy will leave knowing she is out of place. Than come back. A good beta dog is never messed with. There is never fighting for her position it is just known. The fighting results among dogs at the bottom. Like if Ididnt have Oreo and I had a younger female there would be a constant fight for position among the bottom two. Everyone knows Abby's position. If Daisy is in one of her moods and is grouchy and being problematic she will step in front of Oreo to make sure she doesnt get hurt, has stepped in between me and Daisy, has put Daisy's pent up energy on her by harassing her until she plays. By me reinforcing the already existing pack order. It doesnt affect my dogs. It actually calms them even an omega dog which is bottom of the pack, doesnt mind his/her position as long as the dog knows its position. When they dont know there position is when problems arise. But all my dogs are happy. Oreo is left alone which is how she likes it. Abby is my beta dog, and Daisy is just my baby. Beta dogs actually take on a big resposibility they are basically in charge when the humans arent home and keep the rest in line. Each dog has a job, each had their own special privileges that they have first say on. My rotties carry on and act like nutcases playing and chasing each other around so pack order doesnt affect that. They are happy with each other and are happy with us. I hope I explained things a little more so you can better understand it. If anything doesnt make sense or you have more questions feel free to voice them.

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RottyMommy

Moderator

Posts: 343
From:Harrisburg,PA USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 06-07-2003 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy   Click Here to Email RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
Oh and as far as feeding too before I got Daisy Abby and Oreo were fed in the kitchen that still goes. Daisy has her own room where when we are gone or sleeping she stays in there. This was not my choice but it is her safe zone. So I get all their meals ready put Abby's food down, then Oreo's then walk Daisy's food back to her room and most of the time she beats me to her room so she doesnt mind it in fact during the day when I am home I leave the gate to her room open. She goes in there to sleep, to eat and even to drink even though there are 2 water dishes in the kitchen.

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Jas

Moderator

Posts: 163
From:
Registered: May 2003

posted 06-07-2003 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Tracy, I respect others posts and their views on this... but I have conflicting feelings with certain parts of the alpha, beta, omega system.

Sometimes I feel we dogs into our own hierarchal structures. I'm not convinced particular things we as humans do have that great of an effect as to change true leadership. While my dogs respect me as their "leader" I believe they work out their own hierarchy in our pack. Ultimately they know I feed them, I provide water, I say when its time to walk.... Sometimes there is too much emphasis on things like "always walk through the door first before your dog" when in reality - my dogs are thinking about whats on the other side of the door for them - it is doubtful they would actually ponder a moment and feel like they had the power or control over me or another dog because I let one in first. - they really could care less. I have 3 females and one male they have no issues with each other and have worked out their own pack order. The renowned trainer & Posted by Jean Donaldson sums it up in her book Culture Clash,
"The whole dominance thing is, once again, a case of leaping to a conclusion before ruling out more obvious explanations."
Suzanne Clothier also shares a similar view in her articles and book.

I believe there is a natural leader in a pack and I believe that place is worked out between the dogs, not because I set precedence on who is a leader or because I enforce petting or feeding one particular dog first. If I didn't choose correctly I might unnecessarily be putting an Omega dog into and alpha position. A true alpha dog will be evident among a pack. A true alpha doesn't have to be a female or the first dog that was in a household.

Not to say there aren't still dogs who are dominant over their owner!!!!

[This message has been edited by Jas (edited 06-07-2003).]

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RottyMommy

Moderator

Posts: 343
From:Harrisburg,PA USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 06-07-2003 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy   Click Here to Email RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
As I said in these posts and my earlier post. I do believe that dogs know their order when they come into a household. However I do believe on enforcing those roles. But only because I know who my beta dog is. I dont believe that lower pack order dogs know there place they only know they are somewhere in the middle and that is when fighting occurs. Abby is glued to my hip so for me personally I couldnt get around from petting her first if I tried. But it is different with their daddy Daisy is a daddy's girl and gets spoiled rotten from him. But Abby has little interest in him as long as I am home. So for us it works out. Everyone that owns a rotty says if you dont want a dog that follows you around everywhere dont get a rottweiler and it is the total truth. If both my rotties favored one of us we would be in trouble. But Daisy loves her daddy and Abby favors me. And Oreo well she is just off in her own little world most of the time. But as I stated in my original post check out the book culture clash. It really is an excellent book on understanding the way dogs think.

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TRACY
Member

Posts: 10
From:GEORGIA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 06-09-2003 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TRACY     Edit/Delete Message
THANKS ROTTYMOMMY & JAS,

I UNDERSTAND WHAT BOTH OF YOU ARE SAYING AND I THINK YOU BOTH HAVE GOOD IDEAS. IT'S JUST WHATEVER WORKS BEST FOR YOU AND YOUR SITUATION!

P.S. HEY ROTTYMOMMY, MY TWO PUPS LIKE I SAID HAVE HOUND IN THEM ( THERE MOM IS A BLUE TICK)BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT THERE DAD WAS.
THE BLUE TICK IS MY BROTHERS AND SHE GOT PREGNANT SO I GOT TWO OF THEM. THEY LOOK TOTALLY DIFFERENT. THE VET SAID THEY COULD VERY WELL HAVE TO DAD'S. THE SMALLER OF THE TWO HIS NAME IS TUCK AND HE LOOKS LIKE A BLACK LAB. HE HAS VERY SOFT AND BLACK SHINEY FUR, HE EVEN HAS A SPOT OF BLUE ON HIS NECK AND PAWS. HE IS VERY PRETTY. AND THE BIGGER ONE HIS NAME IS CHANCE AND I THINK HE'S EITHER GERMAN SHEPHARD OR ROTTY. BUT I NOTICED YOU SAID YOUR ROTTY'S FOLLOW EACH OF YOU AROUND AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT MY CHANCE DOES. HE'S MY LITTLE SHAWDOW EVERYWHERE I GO AND LOVES ATTENTION AND LOVES FOR ME TO HOLD HIM. WHILE MY TUCK DOESN'T LIKE FOR ME TO HOLD HIM OR FOLLOW ME AROUND HE PRETTY MUCH DOES WHAT HE WANTS, HE HAS HIS OWN AGENDA. I DON'T WANT TO PLAY FAVORITES BUT WITH TUCK HAVING THAT ATTITUDE IT'S KIND OF HARD NOT TO. ANY WAYS MY POINT OF THE P.S. WAS I THINK MY CHANCE JUST MIGHT BE HALF ROTTY. HE'S GOT BLACK AND BROWN MARKINGS JUST LIKE ONE.

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RottyMommy

Moderator

Posts: 343
From:Harrisburg,PA USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 06-10-2003 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy   Click Here to Email RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
It sounds like your babies are just adorable. Each of mine definitely have there own personalities. My oldest Oreo is pretty much in her own little world comes up for attention on occasion but otherwise would rather enjoy sleeping out most of the day. Abby my youngest rotty who is 2 is my baby for sure. She is a total mommy's girl. She thinks every dog in this world was put there to play with her. However people are a different story. She has some territorial issues that we are working on. Daisy my 3 year old rotty is a total daddy's girl. She whines every time he leaves for work. When he is home she is following him everywhere. She is a total people dog. She loves everyone and thinks everyone should love her. Her issues are with other dogs. She was attacked by danes at the rescue I got her from which made her fear aggressive towards other dogs. She is fine with mine but doesnt like other dogs getting too close to her. All have their own personalities and their own issues. But I love them all with all my heart. I could never choose one over another. They all share one thing in common. My love for them and their love for me.

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