just one question

[maxkicker]

what do the breeders here do for a living?
ive read here that good breeders rarely break even and they deticate most of there time to the animals
so im looking to buy one of these money trees u guys seem to have lol

[DeLaUK]

I dont do any breeding but a couple that I know, one of them is a groomer/vet tech who mostly works from home (with the grooming), her husband makes a good living so she has as much work as she wants and when she wants, she also gives a lot of the money that she makes to a local rescue centre. Another one started off with money/property and then started breeding, she is now semi retired and has a large boarding facility and employs about half a dozen people to run it as well as her own family so shes there all the time anyway. (Lives on the grounds). Another one is succesfully self employed and can work from home, occasionally he has to travel a bit but his wife stays home with the dogs.
Theres a couple more but you get the idea, I dont know any who's livelihood depends on it....(respecatable breeders). And to be honest the ones I do know that actually make money from it, over and above what theyve already spent, the money usually goes into things like transport to shows around the country, fees for the shows etc.

[daddyfs]

pretty sure the ones that arent makin money from them still have regular jobs.. anythin is possible with proper time management

[maxkicker]

it just doesnt make sence to me you would think..ill give an example dont flame me on the numbers. lets say your dog has 10 pit pups and you get lucky there all healthy and everything so feeding them and vet bills all that comes to lets say 200 a pup ....so as of now you have 2k in the pups alone and lets say 500 in the parents perhaps my numbers are off but wouldnt it make sence to jack the price up on these pups ppl that really want a healthy beautiful dog would pay it dont yah think ive seen pits for as much as 1000 but $600 is the average from a reputable breeder i think

so using that math i cant see how anyone would even come close to loosing money

[DeLaUK]

I know you said not to 'flame you' on the figures...Im not but the figures are what its about....its the cost of everything from the minute you buy the dog you want to breed.
Cost of the adult dog...say you have the female, how much did she cost? Probably around the same as what youd be charging for a pup so theres about $1000, then theres the basic veterinary care for that dog, vaccines plus office charge, a full puppy pack that covers the series of puppy vaccines and a fecal sample will probably run at about $80-$100 plus anywhere between (where I last lived in CA) $50-$75 for the visit....thats payable with every exam and test. The food, anywhere between about $30-$60+ a month depending on the size of the dog (not forgetting treats and the basic doggy stuff....a bed, bowls, collar leash etc......just thought Id cover everything maybe even throw in a basic obedience course vary form $30 for a do it yourself video up to a couple of thousand for a professional).
Then its almost time to breed her, OFA x-rays if they havent already been done, probably start at around $150, add on about $200 in the dog has to be anaesthetized for the x-rays (plus the exam fee), do they need the eyes checked for genetic problems? thats about $50 a year (plus exam fee by a specialist which will usually cost more than your regular vet), genetic cardiac problems a possibility? cardiologist fees start at about $150, thyroid problems ruled out ? about $60 (plus exam fee) Brucelosis, should be done prior to each breeding, $60 (plus exam fee), plus any other genetic tests that need to be done.... keep in mind your going to spending more on food after about the 4th or 5th week of pregnancy....and may have to add certain foods to the diet pre, during and post pregnancy for additional nutrition. Then theres stud fees (unless you also have the male....in which case, every test youve had done on the female will have to be done with the male also....so double what youve already paid) stud fees can range from a couple of hundred dollars to a couple of thousand.
Then your dogs pregnant, should have regular exams to make sure everything is going smoothly, ultrasound, ($150+visit) x-rays (min $80-100 for one view +visit)....have you got enough put away for that unexpected c-section, your day vet may only charge you about $500-$700 for it but if you have to go to an emergency hospital for it....forget that price, your going to be looking at a minimum of about $1200, probably more. So okay...maybe you didnt need the c-section but you should have the money available just in case (which most people dont). Then the pups arrive and the cost goes down a bit, most litters are between about 5-7.
My friends Mastiff had 6, one didnt make it, the runt, she sat on and suffocated 2 one night which left my friend with 3, (her dog was also lacking in ??protein I think....it cost her an additional $10 a day in steak and eggs) she charged $1500 each, with all that shed put in she was out of pocket, shed have just about broke even if shed had 4 to sell. So if there are 10 pups that are alive and healthy then you lucked out youve made a couple of thousand over your costs but that money should go back into the next dog you breed, there are no gaurantees how many pups will be born or how many will live once they are born.
The cost of what Ive entered is $4,770 (approx), there are other genetic test that can and in some cases depending on the breed should be done, I didnt include the basics like the dog bed, toys etc or training.....nor did I include things like car expenses, wear and tear, cost of gas (if you need to transport the dog anywhere,) which all needs to be taken into account if you want exact figures. I also didnt add on cost of food/weaning formulas for the puppies or vaccines and vet visits for them, dewclaw removal, tail docking etc.
If a breeder is not doing all the required testing can they really be considered a respectable breeder?

[jmann]

[MaxKellyAST]

You forgot to mention the cost of making a dog a champion in the comp. be it weight pull ob or conformation.... The cost is incredible even if you dont count your time, car ect... My bitch had 9 all lived healthy and in good shape. By the time all the pups were sold and gone except the one I kept and the one I gave (gratis) my brother, I paid about a thousand dollars for him....That's if I only include stud fee, wormer/shots, food, exams and AKC litter registration packet... So now ive got a male, after attaining his championship title, health tests, care, training, Let's say I charge $500 (cheap!) just for a shot at his sperm and I do that maybe five times, have I really even made any money?

It should be said that I charged no where near what others charged for comparable pups, its not fair for well bred animals to only be available to people with huge disposable incomes..... So all this being said I know people who get 1500-2000 for their pups without missing a lick. I dont know how they come out on the deal. I cant imagine that if you had a litter of 9 and got 1500 a pup and came out with $13500.00 you wouldnt have pulled ahead a little bit......

[MaxKellyAST]

[True_Pits]

[Shineillusion]

Even if you don't take into concideration that initial cost of the bitch and dog, assuming you'd have them anyway. And you'd feed them anyway, etc etc. Just imagine how many puppies you'd have to sell EVERY DAY to clear enough money to make a living. You couldn't have just a bitch and dog, or even a dozen bitches and a dog. You'd literally have to have HUNDREDS of breeding animals.

Can anyone say puppy mill?