local gets caught(Boudreaux Bloodline)

[DeLaUK]

Oh and for Sara, just because I dont agree with most of what you say doesnt mean I dislike you, I dont know you personally what I know about you is from reading your posts. We have very different experiences with just about everything theres been a discussion on and the advice or suggestions usually do differ significantly. When you dont agree with someone elses post, it really DOES NOT MEAN that the other persons opinion or experience is WRONG or FALSE it just means it DIFFERS from your own...its not necessary to critisize other peoples opinions to get your own point across, that can get a little annoying, usually what I do if I dont agree with something someone else has said is simply add my own thoughts on the topic or maybe check out some websites for information, more knowledge is always a good thing, like this thread for instance, Ive read a lot in the last few days about dog fighting from all points of view....I knew a 'fair' bit about it due to the 'rescue' work Ive done....I know so much more about it now though....fact is no-one knows everything, even experts on any given subject will say theres always more for them to learn, what Ive noticed through life in general though is the people who proclaim to know absolutely everything saying there is nothing else to learn are usually not experts at all.

[Sara]

Well we learn something new every day...

We do all have some very different experiences no doubt...

DeLaUK now that you've gotten some of this new information do you still feel QUITE the same about the subject as you did before the new found knowledge? I know I changed my thoughts on the whole breed as I learned more about "matching" and how responsible Pit Breeders did it back in the day...

[DeLaUK]

I can see more clearly the difference between what some would call a respectable breeder doing what he or she does to preserve the breed and keeping it to its true form, keeping the bloodline small scale and not sold around to just whoever wants that bloodline in their stock for their own personal egotistical satisfaction, I saw a couple of statements saying that these 'dogmen' usually do not have audiences and no money is involved apart from stud fees and purchhase fees. It appears...from what Ive read...that these breeders are few and far between.
For as long as I can remember whenever Ive seen a dog hanging for an hour from a tree or pulling heavy weights across a yard or 'chasing' a caged cat or possum from a treadmill I have assumed that the dog has been in training to fight, I never thought that just a treadmill in itself was a 'sure sign' as I know a number of people that do use them for their dogs to exercise on and the dogs look like they are loving every minute of it, I had a friend tell me that his dog would jump and bark at him at the mill until he turned it on....his dog was a pointer, but a combination of all and more has lead me to believe that they were fighters, but now...I read a lot about weight pulling etc, whether the reports or interviews I read were honest I dont know, Ill take it as I read it, I dont find it hard to believe that a lot of owners want the 'gameness' but would not ever put their dogs in a pit. I totally understand the admiration in the conformation, as I do in watching dogs at most activities, one of my personal favourites is agility....nothing quite like watching a Border Collie zoom around an agility course, or a well bred Rott at a show.
I read a lot about the history also, I brought up something earlier that someone mentioned "it was man that made it illegal" (fighting), it seems as though this breed was only 'created' specifically for fighting as a working class rebellion when bull baiting was outlawed in UK. How sad that in the supposedly civilized countries we live in now do people still want them rip each other apart when they have so many other amazing qualities.
Has all my 'new found knowledge' on this this changed my mind on how I feel about dog fights, or about the people who breed them, train them, sell them whatever 'class' theyre in...not one bit.

[Sara]

I see your differentiation most certainly and I am willing to bet that this is exactly what the goal was in most posts regarding the "fighting" of the breed... The point is that you understand the desires and you understand the breeders who are breeding true... That's GREAT!!!

You mention dogs hanging from trees for hours etc... Couldn't tell if that was a negative or not...but I would like to point out that protection dogs...GSD's and those that are employed in the job ANd participate in the sport love it as much as the pointer loved the mill and the lab loves to fetch... Love it to the point of wearing teeth down nearly to the gum for that beloved bite on the sleeve of the decoy etc... For me this is barbaric as fighting dogs for the most part...(no blood or true injury per se...but the correlation can be made) but it seems many people don't realize that the dogs ENJOY the activity when they have been selective bred to do so... Not saying that to deny the dogs is cruel by any means...not at all...but to me for it to be considered cruelty when done properly and responsibly is a little lost on me... The dogs enjoy it...can be parted safely and don't have to roll till fatal or near fatal injuries occure... I'm not sure if you were meaning to make that correlation or were making the opposite one or not that one at all...but I think it's possible to see it...

AGAIN...just becuase they may enjoy it doesn't mean I beleive that all of them do it or that anyone besides responsible, knowledgeable, and experienced breeders...and even then it's an illegal activity so...well...no one should really do it ...and I certainly couldn't stomach it.

[A.P.B.T. lover]

The problem with enjoying something is not being aware of the consequences.
A dog may love to fight. The tails wagging, they just can't wait to get started, but, the dog does not understand consequence.
He doesn't know that after he's done doing something he enjoys he may have broken limbs, massive wounds, a head the size of a pumpkin, he may die.

My one year old loves to climb the stairs, but he doesn't know the consequence of his action. He'll fall backwards and breck his neck, knock himslef out, land on the concrete below.

That is why we have the bigger brain to know better. That is why we never chose to put our dogs in that situation.

[Sara]

Good point... however if our brains are that much better and bigger then why did the sport ever thrive...why do we box which is a similar sport... Consequence though is a very good point...

Too bad consequence is losing it's meaning these days...if it had as much as it should people wouldn't wonder around with a bite sized morsel tagging along behind un-restrained and helpless.

[DeLaUK]

About the hanging off trees.... when I was a kid I used to think, like a lot of people that the dogs jaws locked...(repeat...when I was a kid ) and that people did something to clamp their jaws shut into the tree , thats what Id been told... I used to think people were cruel for that...once I realized that the wasnt the case I just figure that if they want to let go they can,(Staffs at the time)
Ive done protection and agitation training but not what I think of as 'hard core' (usually German) stuff that Ive seen on video, a guy I went to years ago with a couple of dogs, one of them my own, he trained dogs for the air force for 40 years, mostly it was a lot of agitation, he never hit the dogs with a pole and never hung them but I know that a lot of the dogs that are used are high risk, some potentially deadly to anyone other than the handler...Im not involved in it personally now although Id like to get into back into more search and maybe try tracking sometimes over the next year or so.

I dont know how many times weve had to fix fractured legs, do skin grafts, try and patch up what bits of pads we have left to work with and various other treatments on dogs that have jumped out of car window or out the backs of trucks...and almost every single time as the owner is leaving with their bandaged and splinted dogs they say...."well he learnt his lesson...he wont do it again" !!!!!!

Sara-quote.............Good point... however if our brains are that much better and bigger then why did the sport ever thrive..............................

we finally agree on something

[Sara]

*Shock Gasp* *hand over head in melodramatic pose*...

WHY you are absolutely correct about that one:

[StormyMoon]

[StormyMoon]

[DeLaUK]

What I said was that I had just read a report about kids watching fights in Mexico, I never said it didnt happen any where else, I saw it on a small scale...in the streets and not with Pit Bulls in UK in the70's, usually a couple of kids, sometimes adults, winding their dogs up and taking bets on them while the dogs fought.
There was a point to why I brought that up...maybe you missed it.
Im happy for you that your kids didnt witness it, more happy for your kids, however my ex-husband is Mexican and some of his relatives (some of who still live there) tell a different story. Because you yourself havent seen something or may not know about it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
Dog fights happen everywhere due to dogs roaming the streets, Mexico is one of the countries where "Dog Fighting" (in the context of this thread) is still legal.

[StormyMoon]

[DeLaUK]

And thats great...Im happy that your family dont....maybe your family can do something to get the laws changed in Mexico....