HELP! Puppy house-training going backwards!

CJ

Hi, I'm new to the site and just need a little advice from anyone out there that might have had this problem before - I have a 4 1/2 month old golden retriever pup who was really good using the 'puppy mats' in the house - his aim was getting pretty much perfect! - until a couple of days ago. Now he is doing his 'business' beside the mat, and also metres away from it. I have been showing him the mat all over again but he doesn't seem to understand anymore. He is also not listening to us very much over the last few days - 'sit' even takes a few tries whereas last week he was rolling over no worries! Can anyone shed any light on this??

Dukesdad · Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:24 pm Post subject:

My guess would be that even at 4 1/2 months the pup is trying to assert his dominance by defying your command to sit. I would enroll him in a group obedience class ASAP. This will also help socialize him to other dogs and people.
As for the house training are you taking him outside at regular intervals and praising him when he does his business on the grass? Do not scold him for messing in the house. Believe it or not, to a young pup, even scolding is a way of getting your attention so it only reinforces the bad behavior. Always reward good behavior.
You may try crate training also. Select a crate large enough so the dog can stand and turn around but not too large. A dog will not mess in his den and the crate, with positive training, becomes his private den. The rule of thumb I believe for leaving a pup in a crate is one hour for each month old so your pup should be able to "hold it" for 4 1/2 hours. Always be available at that pouint to take him outside.

CJ · Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject:

He's actually just 'graduated' from puppy pre-school and we're waiting for the next basic course to start at the moment. We do take him outside but we do not have any grass - only pavement - but he will rarely do anything outside no matter how long you leave him - he holds on until back inside - which we were ok with because he did everything on the puppy mat. For the first month or so when we brought him home we used a large 'cage' to train him in and that worked well and he didn't seem to need it anymore so now we use it as his 'time-out' spot if he is naughty. He went back to the mat last night and we praised him a lot. But then a couple of hours later he went next to the mat again. I keep showing him the mat and he doesn't get in trouble unless we catch him doing it. I don't know what else to do. I know our puppy trainer said they go through a stage of 'forgetting' everything they've learnt but she said that wouldn't be till 7 or 8 months - maybe he's early??

Sara · Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:38 pm Post subject:

I'd do some crate training with him if he's against the outside pottying. It sounds as though he's being obstinate of it and should likely be put in a crate... You crate them while not able to watch and are not home. Then RIGHT after meals and returning home take the puppy out on a leash to potty...tell to go potty...wait only about 5 minutes NO Playing... If no potty CARRY pup inside and put in crate for 10-15minutes then back outside. Do this for a couple days and he'll learn that outside is where he potty's and that once he does potty he's free to come in the house and play a game or something. Don't use the crate as a punishment just containment. I'd look into doing it at least for potty training. It helps create a security blanket too...

CJ · Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:

Thanks for the advice! I wasn't keen of the idea of putting him outside so much (he just gets into everything - i was worried about him) but we've been putting him outside whenever he wakes up and after he eats and if he's sniffing around - i think he's getting the idea - he has started to sit at the door sometimes so we let him out then - sometimes takes a few hours outside but he eventually goes! (and digs but i'll work on one problem at a time!!) Thanks again for the help - I've put a few pictures up of him on the Dogster site if you'd like to see him:
www.dogster.com/?102735

nern · Moderator Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 5042 Location: NY

He's adorable! Very Happy

Jamiya · Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 5593

An alternative to leaving him outside for so long is to go out with him and if he doesn't go in 5-10 minutes, come back inside and crate him for another 15-20 minutes, then take him outside again. He should learn fairly quickly that going potty outside means he gets to stay out of the crate for a while. Also, you NEED to go outside with him so you can praise him while he is going. It doesn't hurt to also put a command to it. That way you can tell him "go potty" (or whatever you want to use for a command) and he will know what it means. I personally wouldn't use puppy pads with a dog as big as a Golden.

My standard potty training method is to take the pup outside a LOT - immediately after waking, shortly after eating or drinking, immediately after a play session, any time he is circling or sniffing more than usual, and no more than an hour in between trips out. I stand with the pup outside and wait until he starts to go and then give the command (go potty) and praise while he is going (don't make it TOO exciting or he will stop in the middle) and even give a cookie after he is done to help reinforce it. I did this for months with our new pup, until I was sure she had it. She was around 8-9 months old before I truly trusted her to ask to go out and to hold it if there was no one around to ask. She rarely had ANY accidents even as a smaller pup because I was so vigilant.

CJ · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:32 pm Post subject:

I do go out with him most of the time now (have a lot of mosquito bites from the night outings!!) and he gets a treat after he does it (not everytime because he seems to be catching on now and does it anyway - treat or no treat). He's gotten so much better just in the last week - he's always had a command for it but now it's like he is actually listening! He sleeps inside at night so we still have the puppy pads because he can't hold it all night yet and doesn't wake us up to take him out yet. He's using them again at night so we're ok with that.

Jamiya · Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 5593

Good news! If he starts missing the pads at night, you can always set your alarm for 3-4 hours and get up to take him out. A pain, but that's life with a puppy!

lil96 · Super Senior Member Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Posts: 1265

I don't understand, how big is this concrete area? Why not walk him further? I can"t last that long, can it? I just hink it seems like a nig pain to train a big dog (I know he is still a puppy) to use the puppy pads, especially when it is a boy, but maybe if you tape one pad to the wall and one pad under it on the floor that could help with the leg lifting. I think it would be much easier to just take him outside though and keep him in his crate when you can't. Good Luck! He is a cutey!

Jamiya · Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 5593

I just now noticed the link to dogster. What a cute little fluffy guy!!

CJ · Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:17 pm Post subject:

We don't really want him to use the puppy pads but until he can hold it all night i'm going to leave them there because he does use them some nights (other nights he is waiting till we get up - which is much earlier now!) Oh and we were very proud of him 2 days ago - he tried lifting his leg outside - not on anything mind you but it still was a good try!

CJ · Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:46 pm Post subject:

Just an update to let you all know Chief has know got over his dislike of outside and is out there all the time! When he is inside he will let us know he needs to go out by sitting at the door and looking at us. We are both very happy, and very proud of him for catching on so quick. Thank you all for all of your advice too!!