Appy Question

Sara · Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:03 pm Post subject: Appy Question

Okay so I already know Appy's are "stubborn" but is it a trust thing with them? I've noticed that taking things EXTRA slow with Jack and making sure he understands what's going on makes him as pliable as putty in my hands...but the minute it becomes a test of wills and he is on the misunderstanding side there's no reasoning with him till he sees it at his level and understands that "it" isn't carnivorous or won't hurt him etc... ALSO he's afraid of people on horseback in a big way... Being at a Boarding place has been somewhat traumatic for him becuase of the ammount of activity going on there but he's settling in great now and improving by bounds... I was just curious if the trust thing was with him specifically or with all Appy's... He's certainly no Arab in that sense because he's so quiet...his head goes 100mph it seems but he's really a quiet boy... Thoughts?

someday · Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject:

I don't have that much experience with them, but I know some people that ride them say they're pretty high strung...so it could be..

Sara · Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:12 pm Post subject:

High Strung is something I haven't heard... Stubborn and bullheaded seems to be the consesus and "they choose their owners" is another one... so I wondered if that was all because of trust... High strung I just don't see though... Well compared to a HOT horse anyway...an Arab or TB and compared to those this fellow is already bomb proof...even with the problems I mentioned...LOL

someday · Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:

These are QH people I'm talking to...so yes..high strung is probably slightly different is their eyes...My TB is probably a wild beast to them..hehe

Samsintentions · Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 4265 Location: Texas

well. let me tell you something about appys.

If you want to do things your way, don't get an appy.
If you want an affectionate loving horse that adores you, dont' get an appy.
If you want a horse that learns quickly and accepts all situations from the get go, dont get an appy.

If you want to adore a horse and spend countless hours grooming, feeding and being the primary caregiver and servant, get an appy.
If you wnat to be fully trusted after years of great service to them, get an appy.
If you want a horse thats built to with stand severe climates, get an appy.
If you want a tempermental horse, get an appy.
If you want an emotional horse, get an appy.

Basically they are stubborn, bull headed, moody, and kantacorous. But they are very hardy horses, and very athletic.
Given enought time to adjust, and gain your trust, you'll never own a more loyal animal.

Sassy is the #1 prime example. She was born in my hands, and raised by me, trained by me and to this day will not tolarate other humans with out me being around. SHe can not be ridden by anyone but me, lead, loaded, or worked with. This poses serious problems...but nothing we can't handle.

I never have to worry about her being stolen or running away. One call from my mouth and she comes running like a bat outta hell.

Just take your time. And be the main handler. He'll come around. It just takes time.

This is why the indians liked them so much. THye were loyal to one person and loyal for life.

Sara · Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:41 pm Post subject:

This is what I've learned in my two weeks as an Appy owner and I'm quite thrilled that what I learned was right on... As horses go...this is truly what I wanted... I'm patient and can handle it...those around me are urging this and that but I'll go with Jack's flow and we'll make a good partnership in time... Heck to ride on a cadillac as capable as he and trustworthy as well... I'll do just about ANYTHING! My Arab doesn't trust a dang thing so this is QUITE nice...I'm not riding yet...we're starting OVER as our beginning was rough (in Appy terms) ...Thanks for the info and I can't wait as each day is exciting because I can see the trust coming EVERY day!

to push or not to push and how hard??? Ease into things at his pace or will he walk all over me that way? My gut tells me slow and at his pace and he's pretty easy to figure out in terms of stubborn or worried....

Samsintentions · Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 4265 Location: Texas

push just a little. Remember you want him to do what YOU want to do and not the other way around. THey are very intelligent and will often times run you instead of the other way around. SO push him just a little to see his limits and go from there. Keep working on what your working on, and add a little each time.

Sara · Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:44 pm Post subject:

JUST what I'm doing...and it's working GREAT... He's sooo touchy about blankets and stuff like that... I'm not going to get on him again till he gets over that crap...we've been working with lead ropes and now a stick as well as his rugs etc... he gets better every day... Got a lot of colt in him and he's one smart boy...I LOVE it... He's just like my welsh pony I had as a kid...LOL...ony he's a kid.

horse_child · Member Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 433

I basically learned how to ride on an appy, and he was awsome. he just took to me right away. he had a thing where he wouldn't want to stand still while i mounted, well it took me 3 months to get him to stand still and i'll tell you what i was the only person he would stand still for. i loved him so much, but he was tough and he taught me that i can't let horses puch me around. so when i got me 3 year old QH it was amazing how willing he was to do everything. i spoil him so much! hehe

Samsintentions · Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 4265 Location: Texas

Wal-Mart bags work great for sacking out. Take a walmart bag, and crumple up a few sheets of paper and put them inside. Then tie the walmart bag to the end of a broomstick. Shake it, rub it all over him.. Head to toe. Make sur it makes noise and stuff....He'll step aside the first couple of tiems, but he'll get used to it.

I also like to take a can like a BIG bush beans can. Empty the contents and fill it with about a handfull of marbles, or un cooked (hard) pinto beans. Secure the end of it and take it and roll it all over his body. The hardness lets him know wher eit is, plus it has sound so he can learn that everything makes noises.

Sara · Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:37 pm Post subject:

That can idea is a good one and we're going to do the bag thing this week...he's fine with the lead rope and his rugs...the winter one is velcro for the belly straps and compared to the first time he heard THAT sound his tiny dance this morning was NICE... He hates that sound...he's not really that afraid of it...the vibration and sound and weird feeling of it are the culprits...but today he only took a few steps while I undid it and stood quietly for me to take the whole Blanket off... The sacking with the wal-mart bags will be nice and then I'll do the can deal...he's weird about "touching"... My arab was that way...a quick Join-up did the trick... FOR THE LIFE of me though I can't get Jack to "join-up"... HE gets sweaty and tired but he never really even licks and chews much... WEIRD... But we're working around it and going at the whole deal in a different direction...

Thanks for the thoughts... ON Friday hopefully we'll get to driving reins...and this week we're also going to work on getting him to yeild his hind end... THAT's what WILL be fixed before I get back on him...his mouth and his rear... He's like a yearling though...he backs or turns on the huanch rather than yeild his hind end...even to gates he does that...VERY frustrating while trying to manipulate him through gates etc... This will be a full week!

Samsintentions · Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 4265 Location: Texas

Have you tried working him with a surcingle? That will really help. Also taking him to shows and stuff where he can be ringside watching will help. he'll learn that the riders on horseback aren't monsters and he will settle down quite a bit.

S.A. was the very same way. took her a while to chill out. SO we'd take her to rodeo's and tie her to the arena wehre she was not in the way but right in the action spots.... unsaddled.

After 2 or 3 of those, she really calmed down a bunch.

Sacking out will be great. WOrking driving is a good thing too. But if you have a problem with his hind end, it can prove to be more disasterous than prosperous....

Sara · Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject:

I'll do the driving with a Surcingle and off to the side for him to learn about the bit, he fights that...next week...and this week I'll work on his yeilding with pressure from my lil'ol thumb...

I'm also going to start him in Dressage here in a bit at lessons but before that I'll do the basics on a different horse... Jack will come with though and get tied so he'll get used to people on horses... Shouldn't take long if he's in the middle of the action... He hides in his stall when the neighbor lady tacks up and mounts so...that's not working...LOL... He's kind of a baby about it... CUTE...I think...LOL

Any other thoughts besides the thumb for getting his hind end more supple???

Samsintentions · Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 4265 Location: Texas

have you wored at all on pivoting?

Sara · Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject:

On the ground??? He does that by himself on the haunch...you know??? But...like say when I go to turn him around in a tight circle on the ground...he backs up to have his shoulder in frount of me rather than circling his butt around.... Does that make sense... He really doesn't keep that hind end under him much...and so when we had our little accident (just a buck or two that couldn't sit and he fell as I fell off)...he was fighting the bit and his rear was hanging out you know what I mean??? It's more a bit thing than a rear thing I think...but for simple ground manners this non-yeilding thing is realy a pain...LOL ??? Did any of that make sense???

Samsintentions · Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 4265 Location: Texas

yes. First of all your proably usuing a harsh bit.

What kind are you using? a side pull or a tomb thumb would be best to start him off.
Also does he have his wolf teeth? have they been removed?

Have you tried a bossal?

Sara · Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:25 pm Post subject:

He's in a D but I'm going to switch to an Eggbutt... He's didn't have an issue till he was annoyed and worried about the people on horse back and I learned the hard way that he didn't trust me at times of fearfullness etc...

I was tempted to try a bosal/hackamoor but since I want to do Dressage with him I wanted to get him on the bit from the start (does that make sense?)... Wolf Teeth....(thumbing through dusty brain but can't find it...) ???? I don't think he has them if my memory serves correctly.

horse_child · Member Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 433

maybe get his teeth floated. it could be a bothersome tooth or a sore mouth issue.

KellyMichBarrelRacer · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:10 am Post subject:

i mean absolutly no offence to anyone who is a appie lover cuz ive been an owner of an appie and they are good horses its just my personal appinion that they are stupid they have no attention span and are very inbreed.they are beautiful horses they just cant concentrate and offten have health problems and conformation problems.im not saying that they cant learn its just harder for them

Sara · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:08 pm Post subject:

Jack has some baby teeth still and they don't need floating as far as my eyes tell me... He's just a three year old boy that needs some coaxing and understanding. He's coming around beautifully...

I'm sorry you may feel Appy's are stupid but even the non-appy people I've talked to would dispute that thought. You're appy may have been stupid but MY appy is one of the smartest horses I've ever met... I've heard countless stories about how smart they are... PERHAPS you and your Appy simply didn't get along... ONE thing universal that I've heard is that Appy's pick their owners, not the other way around... Maybe you were not first choice???

Anyway I have an Arab Gelding and Jack is smarter than my Arab...well he's cooler in the head anyway...Each horse is different and you can't say that one breed is one way completely... Inbred??? I think the conformation ring has caused lots of issues with LOTS of breeds as far as inbreeding etc... QH's are prime examples of this...small feet, narrow hips, the gene pool is small for them and so breeding QH is hard...other breeds I'm sure are the same...

You say Tomato right?