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Jas
Moderator
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 774
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Lets not anthropomorphize canine reproduction. A male dog is acting instinctually. Doing what he needs to do to reproduce when HE thinks the time is right. With or without human interference he is still going to try - if a bitch is resistant he may have a challenge on his hands. Male dogs do NOT stand there contemplating or have the moral judgment to decide what is right or wrong. That is the difference. There could be dozens of reasons a female DOG is not willing or ready. Could be reasons they know, could be reasons breeders know, could just be the nature of the 'beast'. |
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True_Pits
Super Senior Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1433
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:13 am Post subject: |
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{quote]Well sorry but thats not right no animal should be forced to mate.[/quote]
Sorry but its nature and happens everyday with or without human intervention. Without there is usually problems and injuries. Maybe you need to take these issues up with the creator or animal themselves. It doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong, a male will try to breed a female. When a person ASSIST as in helps by not allowing them to harm one another in this process it is much better than the natural thing.
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| A bitch that is agressive should not be bred from anyway. |
Do you have any reasoning behind this? Or is it another empty opinion? Why should we not breed a bitch who is aggressive?
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| I know there is a test to know when they ready actually it cant tell you exactly when she is ready they can just give you an estimated guess as each bitch is different some ovulate the begining some the middle and some the end. |
Oh really wow you are so smart. Well no kidding thats why the test exist, because each bitch is individual and they ovulate at different times.
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| My uncle breeds APBT's and bullmastiffs and he agrees that making a bitch accept a male is out of order and it is actual fact cruel. |
So now your uncle is a higher power? I can find just as many who say it is okay as you could find who say its not. So this means nothing. Besides who is your uncle to me (or any of us). I dont generally have interest in people breeding two or more breeds. What kind of APBTs does he breed?
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| I dont blame his bitch for attacking the male if he does this |
He does this because the female tried to fight, wrong as it may be. Maybe you should just go back and read, the female was trained for fight, therefore that is what she was trying to do. He wouldn't have resorted to putting tape on his mouth had the female not been aggressive.
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| I don't believe any dog that does not want to be bred should be forced to. That is not your choice. If she's not receptive then get over it, find a bitch who is. |
OMG, I just had to respond to this. Find another bitch who is? So what your saying is to buy the best possible pup(which won't be cheap), raise it, train it, condition it, walk it, feed it, ect for how ever many years, prove it, health test it, spend thousands of dollars on it and then she doesn't want to breed so just forget about it and go through it all over again until you find one who won't try to fight? Yeah that really makes sense. Sorry but breedings not just that simple, it takes a lot of everything time, money, patience, lining up the best possible make to just forget about it and "get a different bitch". |
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charmedagain
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 2238
Location: uk
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well why is there any need to train a dog to fight just so small minded owners can have the enjoyment of watching there dog or another being ripped apart so this is supposedly right.
Sorry but if your going to breed do it right and not force her to do it.
There is a difference to some bitch wandering the streets due to being neglected by her owner and a bitch that is confined or muzzled just so she wont attack the male just so the owner can get pups which he will then sell for the purpose of making more fighters.
There is no such thing as an aggresive dog just an ignorant arogant owner who trains these beautiful creatures to fight till the death.
At the end of the day i am not going to get into what i think of dog fighting or the people that do it.
But breeding should be done in the best interest of the breed and not just to make money or to create more fighing dogs that are going to end up either PTS or put in to animal shelters because they cant be handled or have the taste for blood. |
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spencerpits
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 453
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Well why is there any need to train a dog to fight just so small minded owners can have the enjoyment of watching there dog or another being ripped apart so this is supposedly right. |
As someone just stated, you obviously know nothing about the American Pit Bull Terrier. That particular bitch probably wasn't *trained* to fight. You have to understand what the breed was originally created for - cattle hearding, bull hearding/controlling, yes even dog fighting. It is in their very nature to be dog aggressive - and that does not mean human aggressive. Any animal that is human aggressive should not be bred and in *my opinion* should be immediately euthanized. But as for dog aggression, that is what the APBT is. And believe it or not, they are VERY different than GSDs. A dog aggressive APBT is not a *bad* dog. This bitch may have the best temperament in the world towrds people. She just wants to fight any and every other dog - male or female. Her fighting the male probably had nothing to do with her not being ready (although that is a possibility) or just *not wanting to*. It's just that she wants to fight. Plain and simple. If you people can't accept the fact that APBTs are dog aggressive, then don't have anything to do with the breed, and quit trying to give your *expert advice* when you know nothing of this breed. |
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spencerpits
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 453
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| There is no such thing as an aggresive dog just an ignorant arogant owner who trains these beautiful creatures to fight till the death. |
Again, this just shows that you know nothing of the APBT breed, and don't really need to be posting your advice/knowledge/etc on an APBT specific subject.
All this girl asked was did we agree with her that taping the dog's mouth shut was wrong. Yes, it was! As mentioned, there are much more humane ways of accomplishing a breeding of two APBTs, such as a breeding stand and/or muzzle. These are not cruel or "medieval turture devices". They are for the animals' (both the male and female) safety. Everyone has their right to their opinion, but at least try to know what you're talking about before bashing other people's suggestions.
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| But breeding should be done in the best interest of the breed and not just to make money or to create more fighing dogs that are going to end up either PTS or put in to animal shelters because they cant be handled or have the taste for blood. |
DOG AGRESSION, NOT HUMAN AGRESSION! A WELL BRED APBT MAY BE THE MOST DOG AGRESSIVE ANIMAL IN THE WORLD, BUT WOULD NEVER BE HUMAN AGGRESSIVE (UNLESS THEY FEEL THEIR OWNER'S SAFETY IS AT STAKE). THESE DOGS ARE GENETICALLY DISPOSITIONED TO BE DOG AGGRESSIVE. AS SUCH, SINCE YOU THINK THAT IS WRONG, SHOULD EVERYONE QUIT BREEDING APBTS ALL TOGETHER? GET A GRIP ON REALITY AND LEARN ABOUT THIS BREED!!
Last edited by spencerpits on Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Actually spencerpits the original poster did say she "thought" the dog was trained to fight.
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| they said the female had been trained to fight by the past owners, i cant really remember if thats correct though. |
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spencerpits
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 453
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually spencerpits the original poster did say she "thought" the dog was trained to fight. |
Thank you Regina for pointing that out and correcting me. Even still, if she was trained to fight, she was obviously not human aggressive if they were able to tape her muzzle shut.
WOW - this thread has gotten so crazy.  |
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spencerpits
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 453
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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I would hate to see what this man puts his pups through if they wont eat for the first time does he shove food down there throats.
He has no right calling himself a breeder or even breeding full stop him and people like him are the reason there is so many badly bred dogs in the world ones with health problems temperament problems. |
This is one thing I do agree with you on, charmedagain. That paticular breeder was cruel, and should not be breeding, or in my opinion even owning dogs. But for you to bash the rest of us for saying that human intervention such as a muzzle or breeding stand is wrong. They are very humane ways to assist in the breeding. |
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charmedagain
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 2238
Location: uk
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Dont get me wrong there is some breeders of pits out there that have there females best interests at heart.
I dont agree in restraining any animals so they can be bred.
I understand thats some pit females do need to be restrained but what got me really angry is the way this owner is treating her.
Also if she just wanted to fight why would he want to risk the death of a male just to get his dog pregnant he knew that she would attack the male as it was pointed out she is trained to fight so i dont think she should have been bred from.
Just my opinion thats all sorry if i came across as putting all you pit breeders down that was not my intention.
I am not a pit person but they are beautiful dogs and the ones i know are so loving and affectionate they dont deserve the bad reputation they have. |
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chickee
Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 62
Location: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| charmedagain wrote: |
| Well why is there any need to train a dog to fight just so small minded owners can have the enjoyment of watching there dog or another being ripped apart so this is supposedly right. |
People don't 'train' the dogs to fight. I think if you are going to post on a pit bull board, you may as well post as if you know what you're talking about and that goes with the breeding aspect as well.
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| There is no such thing as an aggresive dog just an ignorant arogant owner who trains these beautiful creatures to fight till the death. |
I have as yet to see any of your posts contain FACTS. There are aggressive dogs in every breed, which may or may have nothing to do with how the owner raises said dog. You've posted this untruth before.
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| At the end of the day i am not going to get into what i think of dog fighting or the people that do it. |
I do not 'train' my dogs to be aggressive or to fight, they all have been around each other when young and got along well, but as nature has it, all dogs have their own personality. And since we are talking about pit bulls here, that personality can be natural aggression toward other dogs (and animals in general.) Now that all my dogs are age 2 - 7 years old, some of them can't be together, some probably can, but I don't allow because it is much easier to keep them separated before the deed can be done, - same sex, that is. They do very well with male/female ratio when out in the yard playing...but they will fight someone of their own sex. I did not plan it this way, nor do I particularly like it, but, hey! They are pit bulls and I have scheduled my life around it.
This morning my husband let "Dee" upstairs into our bedroom to wake me up. She has never been in our bedroom. She caught a glimse of herself in our mirrored closet doors. (Those huge mirrored sliding doors). Stopped dead and just stared at herself without making the slightest move. I told Butch to get her out before she attacked the mirror. (plus it was a real expensive door...lol).. She started growling under her breath and in a second she went for the door. Didn't break it.....Butch was there. This dog is my personal favorite. Smart as a whip, and she is 6 years old.
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| But breeding should be done in the best interest of the breed and not just to make money or to create more fighing dogs that are going to end up either PTS or put in to animal shelters because they cant be handled or have the taste for blood. |
So in closing, I have to ask you, What the hell does this above paragraph have to do with the subject? NOTHING. |
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chickee
Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 62
Location: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I understand thats some pit females do need to be restrained but what got me really angry is the way this owner is treating her. |
sigh...
Ya know, I'm so sick of people catagorizing pit bulls on almost all subjects that are 'unpleasant' BUT, the fact is, pit bulls are not the only breed that needs restrained or watched over during the act of mating. Some don't need watched over at all. It is an individual dog thing - NOT breed thing. But, there are females who will not breed, though all the signs are there.
There are so many other things I would like to comment on (again) but I don't have the time to repeat myself, and people who don't know what they are talking about aren't going to change their minds anyway, so who really cares? I don't. |
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Jas
Moderator
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 774
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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spencerpits wrote:
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All this girl asked was did we agree with her that taping the dog's mouth shut was wrong.
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Exactly! On that note I think it's time to end this discussion, we've all answered the original question and the comments here have far exceeded that.
Topic Closed!
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