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New pics of my doggies



 
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True_Pits
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: New pics of my doggies Reply with quote
So we got a break in the weather the past couple days, it was 72 yesterday woohooo and of course now its a bit chill.

I got some pics when walking the dogs yesterday.


Warrior @ 10 months growing up and filling out!!


Chile this gal loves to run!!!


Desire looking real good @ 8 months & 38lbs
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DMikeM
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pretty dogs, but.
FOOD!!! More Food!

LOL I have raised a few Staffordshire Terriers and a Red Nosed Pit and I know they go through a skinny stage but I got hungry just checking out your pics.
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Sara
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did you show the pits you had??? I know that AKC Staffies tend to be a bit on the heavy side anyway... I'm curious because ADBA shows like pits to be in about the exact contition that True has them in... They've got lots of muscle to spare so the dogs aren't "skinny" they seem to be in pretty good condition especially since they're still showin' as much as possible...

Here's a couple pics of the "norm" in terms of condition when it comes to the ADBA show ring:







And a Couple of True's dogs:

Venom


Twister--Bella's sire
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DMikeM
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No, I did not show my dogs but look at those dogs. The spine and ribs are showing on nearly all of them. Pepsi only showed her spine when she was sick with Parvo, and she is a thin dog.

Here are a couple shots of Storm but it is hard to tell as she is not posing like those you showed.



Here is one a couple months before she passed away.



And here is Pepsi last summer. Even at 14 or 15 years old her spine is not visible.


I have watched a few dog shows on TV and been to one as well and did not see any Pits or Staffies that thin.

I Just took a cruise around the NEt and found a couple sites that show APBT certified by AKC and UKC that look to be in the exact shape as True's but they also show others that are far more fleshed out.
http://www.apbtconformation.com/
I guess it is just up to the owner and the metabolism of the dog
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True_Pits
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
More pics

took these today

Santana's kids.....




Sire by Twister (2nd of my dogs that Sara posted) She weighted in at 29.5lbs today.




Sire by Champion Venom (the 1st that she posted)

Santana being a fool lastnite

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Samsintentions
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Awsome!!!
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True_Pits
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DMikeM wrote:
Pretty dogs, but.
FOOD!!! More Food!

LOL I have raised a few Staffordshire Terriers and a Red Nosed Pit and I know they go through a skinny stage but I got hungry just checking out your pics.


Thanks for the comps.

As far as feeding they eat very well, we feed Nutro adult and high energy and yesterday they had some nice beef liver (I get the huge livers that you have to slice up 5lbs each) and rice, as well as their normal eggs, garlic and wheat germ, they seem pretty satisfied.

I have been in show/working APBTs for 10yrs. Also if you show a dog that is skinny or underfed you're likely not going to place. Judges can tell the difference between conditioned dog and starved down. Matter of fact I was showing Val one time (which I think she took 2nd) and the dog next to me was skinny, not as bad as the pics I posted below but had hips showing and you really shouldn't at least not more then a little like with the vetebrae and hers were really visible and ribs too. The judge walked up to her and wasn't rude but basically said your dog is too skinny, see how her hips or stuck out and ribs are very visible, she needs to be fed and worked for conditioning. Once I even got told, the dog I showed got 2nd and judge said would have had a 1st but was slightly underweight. I already knew was about 1 and a halflbs off, but nothing I could do just got the dog and was underweight by more then a few lbs and I simply tried to put weight on the dog in a little over a week (without making him fat/bloated or gain to fast) and wasn't even running the dog just feeding him. I got him looking decent again instead of ill, but not enough. Although she could tell he wasn't starved he looked like maybe how the dogs look who drop a lb or so of weight from being stressed while traveling to the shows. Which does effect how they place too, they can drop weight overnight like that, something you learn how to deal with and prevent after you been showing some.

I have a show next month and I'm getting ready. You should have a little rib visible on a conditioned dog and sometimes a few vetebrae, not a roached spine like a starving dog. You also have muscle/flesh over the ribs even though they are visible. Also you will have HARD muscle, vs soft muscle/flesh which is just regular muscle/fat. They should have a tuck and hard stomach, not sunk in or no stomach which also tells you a dog need to eat more and none of my dogs have a sunk in stomach. Some conditioned dogs have very little body fat, one that I know had a very low percentage of body fat was said by the vet to be in the best shape of any dog they had ever seen. You want a dog lean, a dog that is heavy and I don't mean fat but just has extra weight that is not need will overheat quicker and not have a full avantage.

Which dogs usually take it in weight pull, the condition dogs that people have put time and work into. Who gets winded less and has more endurance? The conditioned dog. Which dog works longer and harder without exhuasting out and overheating????

If a dog is starved, skinny, underfed, ect it will NOT have muscle, muscle tissue will be broken down for the body to use. You will see a roached spine and ribs will be fully visible and sometimes skin sunk in around it if its real bad. Also these dogs don't do so good working, just like the dog that is too heavy too light will also be weaker, exhuast quicker, ect.

My dogs....

Moonshine


Champion Venom


Santana


Santana

These are what skinny Pits (and other dogs) look like in comparison

No muscle over ribs, roached spine, hips showing, peak of skull, face sunk in, ect.




A lot of rib/spine, and spine is starting to roach. Also can't see whole dog but can tell the stomach is SUNK IN, which is totally different from my dogs who literally have hard stomachs, slight tuck like they show be and hard muscle surrounding it kind of like humans with great abs. It looks like they have a little muscle around the legs but probably not as pics can be deceptive on this, when they are that skinny most of the muscle is broken down (any thats left may be squishy) and what you see is actually ery little flesh, tendons, ect over bone and that is whats giving the shape and varience thats visible not muscle.

Quote:
No, I did not show my dogs but look at those dogs. The spine and ribs are showing on nearly all of them. Pepsi only showed her spine when she was sick with Parvo, and she is a thin dog.


Since you didn't show or work your dogs (I take it they were just pets) you had no reason to condition them as it would provide no benefit to them. If a dog is just a pet it should be fine at a heavier weight as long as its not obede which many pets are these days and that to me is unhealthy!

Quote:
I have watched a few dog shows on TV and been to one as well and did not see any Pits or Staffies that thin.

I Just took a cruise around the NEt and found a couple sites that show APBT certified by AKC and UKC that look to be in the exact shape as True's but they also show others that are far more fleshed out.
http://www.apbtconformation.com/
I guess it is just up to the owner and the metabolism of the dog


I'm sure you never saw an ADBA show on television, they are never televised unless its the media putting out a good word for the breed and even then its only brief.

I'd guess it was UKC or AKC dogs so you are comparing apples to oranges?? An overdone, heavy build dog show dog (like most other breeds the AKC has ruined). This is NOT what a real Pit Bull originally looked like. This is what we are trying to save our breed from!!!! Just another overdone, non working shell of its original self, we do not want that for our dogs in anyway.

Again AKC is for AST not APBTs and they dogs have a different structure, build and are not conditioned but heavy at the shows. UKC depends there are dogs like man that can place in the UKC but you must have the right judge who likes old school dogs, if you show under a AST judge you won't place with dogs like mine because they want a heavier dog and of course different structure.

If you go to this kennel
http://www.caragankennel.com/

You will see the same dog-go to where it reads as this "Home of 2006 UKC TOP #2 producing American Pit Bull Terrier (Red Nose) Dam 5 years in a row 2001/2002/2003/2004 CH 'PR' XIA of LAR-SAN also is an ADBA GR CH . Xia seen below at ADBA weight and UKC weight"

The same dog conditioned for 2 different shows, and actually that is pretty damn good conditioning for UKC when like I said many staff judges who put up sausage dogs that are heavy and also overdone in bone structure. UKC has a lot of varience. Dogs like the one on the site are becoming ever more rare in the UKC ring as the Bully trend takes stronger hold.

Desire is naturally muscular, which is genetics if you look at her dam Val in my avatar she naturally has real good tone and her sire Moonshine and Moonshines line does too, both have high motabolism and energy and practically condition on their own. Which is how she is going to be. Her brother right now is going through his lanky growth spurt and will hopefully turn out like her. She has great muscle like her parents and the above pic was of her was taken after she had only been walked 1 mile 1st day, 2 miles walk/run and 3 miles walk/run again 3rd day. She got slightly winded and I like a dog to have natural wind but she is a pup who had never been ran before, I got a little winded since I haven't been running dogs for a few months now. We will see how she turns out. I should be able to condition her very easy, just peak and tweak for shows.


This is Moonshine's sister again good tone


This is his mom, nice natural tone and its hard to see in this pic but rib is just slightly visible but packed over with muscle.


Moonshine's half brother-same sire and his mom is actually mother of Moonshine's mom so Moonshine's grandma would be this dogs mom. Again some rib is visible but you can see muscle mass which means the dog isn't being underfed, otherwise it wouldn't have the mass the body would us it. This was taken shortly before a show.


Here is a girl I will start showing this year, she is at normal weight here which is pretty decent she keeps good weight/condition by herself just like her brother (he is more muscular because he plays ALL DAY and NIGHT I'm going to post video of the fool playing one day) when she is taken to peak she will have a little rib showing but will have more MUSCLE (which means not skinny/hungry) and have muscle over the visible rib.

A lot of working dogs would be considered thin by AKC and pet standards

Greyhound
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DMikeM
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
True Pits your dogs are are awesome but do look a little thin to me and by no means am I implying that they are starved but again I did not show my girls. My girls were never hard worked or conditioned, but during the warm months they would drop weight and look like pure muscle. I never remember seeing bone outlines on them except when Pepsi was sick near death.
Venom and Moonshine and Shine's sis look fantastic but Santana just looks like she wants another pound of liver. The 2 white ones remind me of how Storm looked every summer. I sure miss her, I can't even look at her pics without bringing tears to my eyes.

Some of those pics of the skinnier pits is just flat out abuse. I do not mean to offend you I am just used to a more fleshed out dog.
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Samsintentions
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Figured I'd throw my two cents in for what its worth. There's a huge diffrence between "thin" and "conditioned" a conditioned dog should have a waist line. last ribs visible, and good muxculature. There should be nice even cover of muscle and tissue over ribs, and hind quarter. Loins should be tight and a roached spine not visible. Musclulature should be toned and prominant, but not under cut, nor depleated.

You should not beable to see intercostal muscles in use when a dog is inhaling or exhaling. If so, your dog is very much underweight.

Trues dogs are nice and conditioned. SOme people think a chubby dog is a conditioned dog. This is not true.

This is our pit. Very nicely conditioned at 11 months:



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True_Pits
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well they were only saying what they thought so I respect them in saying something and also not being rude. But basically that is the truth I'm getting ready for a show so working my dogs is a must.

There is a difference between having a few as pets. I do have my dogs because I love them and the breed but they are more then just pets. We do more then raise them as companion and a few for pets around. We have probably had a 100 APBTs and they aren't just couch potatoes. So there is a big difference.

The website again its for AKC and UKC mostly, but even if not all the dogs they show are not going to be conditioned. That website is to show conformation of how the dog should be build. So they took dogs that were ideal and used them as examples they never said they were all in show condition just like they might not all have proper temperament.

Thanks Sara & Sams

Mickey looks at a good chain weight, how much does he weight I don't think you've said before?




This is a male off of Twister's brother at a show after being in a partial keep, the pics don't even do him justice on how good he looked, I can't remember how many weeks in he was either.
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Samsintentions
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mickey is 46 lbs. but probably eats twice that daily! LOLOL he'sa chow hound, but his matabolism and energy level are thru the roof! I kid you not though. That dog can run with his weight ball for hours, and hang from his spring pole for days if we let him. I've never seen him completely worn down. Here's a RARE footage of him doing the imposible...sleeping....



I have to say, this past weekend at the show there was an APBT running around, (on leash, but you get my point) anyway, it looked JUST like Sara's Honey Jade. Kinda brought a tear to my eye. I liked that dog. Sara's got two of the best looking pits I think i ever got the chance to meet. Monty was awsome. OMG. I can honestly say i've never seen a better put together pit... and one that liked gatoraid bottles as much as he!!!! and Honey Jade, she didn't like us being there. but boy, she was gorgeous. I liked her best. her honey color mixed with her small frame... We found one that looks like her, but boy, the price thy have on her is outragious. But they have a right to charge what they want I guess... just not up our alley to pay that much.
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True_Pits
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pits have tons of energy!!! Pits worn out, tired? Hmmm I don't think they know what that means. I can only imagine how busy Mickey stays, ours play day and night, I've been woke up at 1, 2, 3 in the morning from it. Dont they ever take a break and rest! Even in the cold they don't care.

So 46lbs, that is a nice weight and he looks good at it. Your the best Its great when they keep themselves busy.

Monty is a pretty nice looking dog. Silly at that too, such a pitty.


My vote for best conditioned dog!!!! This is a sister to Warrior's dam.

So my hubby just put in for the 2 TX shows to get off work, so we will be going south. Guess we will get a chance to meet up. Now I just got to decide who to take....thats another matter.
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Samsintentions
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
just let me know when!!! LOL

Might have to come to the shows. Would love to watch.

Back to wiping puppy butts for me!! talk to yall later! Surprised
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Sara
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
True that dog is in awesome condition!!! I thought you had pics of one of your dogs that won for best condition???? I couldn't find it when I checked???

There's definately a difference in pet "weight" and working and show weight...I prefer the latter even if the dog isn't doing that much "work"...but I did tend to let my dogs get on the "heavy" side when we petted them around. HJ was notorious for getting pudgy if I didn't watch it and even then her ribs were well covered with a soft squishy belly too LOL...

Thanks for the compliments on my babies... Bella I think is much better put together than HJ ever was but I don't know that I'll find another like my girl. I saw one last night online that looked JUST like her in the face, the exact markings except this dog's nose was black not red like HJ. I miss that dog for sure! Monty only just recently warmed up to Bella rather than kinda keeping a distance I think he resented her presence after the loss of HJ, those two were bosom buddies!

Here's a pick shortly after we got Honijade she was 9 wks in this one...



A few of Honijade the summer before she died on vacation with us in Salt Lake City between Boise and Cheyenne:







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Chezza
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, awesome piccies of all the dogs.. They are truley magnificent dogs..
I think that all the pits I saw were fairly good, they were not starved or looked starved, but those piccs that I saw of some of the "Other" dogs in the comp, now thats truley skinny, and under weight..Im surprised they let them compete, or that they dont say anything...
Once again gorgeous piccs guys.. Your the best

When Hubby and I move interstate we are looking to get a staffy, adoption of course..We cant wait..
Dont know if my kittys will like it though lol.. Mr. Green
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True_Pits
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
HJ was a pretty girl, looks real nice in the pic on vacation. At least he finally warmed up to her, some of them its really hard for them to lose, they seem to have really strong bonds. Will you guys be going to the Salt Lake Show? It is one of the best shows hands down!!!! Can't wait for that one. Nice concrete, Greenwoods, great environment, some of the best dogs competing. Our friends also started another club in Utah so they are having a fun show this year, we won't be attending but in laws will be. We have to send off for another club kit!! We can't find it anywhere now, so Monday I'm going to do that and get the ball rolling. Well it looks like its cold and snowy. Mad But oh well, see ya tomorrow, or later today?? whatever it is.

Cheeza thanks for the compliments on my dogs (and everyone else). The pics I posted of other dogs that were skinny weren't competing dogs. The 1st one I think if I remember was a Pit found after Katrina. If dogs showed up that much underweight at a show I'm sure someone would call AC.
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Sara
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks True! and Chezza too. I don't know about the Salt Lake Show. I'll have to check out the dates and whatnot. I really need to start doing that...the weather is just making me too mad to look into anything seriously, it just gives me ideas on what I want to be doing... It's bright and sunny here today so it might stay that way at least until after noon at least??? Crossing fingers...now I have to decide to clean house or rake yard while the sun is out... Probably yard...so the house will be in a bit of a mess...

Sara
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Samsintentions
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yard? you have a yard!!!! man. mines still under water!!!
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True_Pits
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah Sams you should check out the shows!!!! Would be fun. They are on April 14/15 will be good. We won't be able to stay at your place because we have decided to come home after Odessa and then drive back down. Maybe next year.

We also decided to sell a couple more dogs, so if you know anyone down your way I have a male that is 12xs Werdo and a heavy Eli female Boudreaux on top and Rascal/Carver/Eli on bottom.

What Boudreaux is Mickey? I forgot to ask before, ours are all Maverick bred.
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