| Author |
Message |
DeLaUK
Super Senior Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 1938
Location: Surrey, UK
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Jamiya wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Have you heard of DogStopper? Its an imprinting tool as opposed to a training tool, its what I ended up using with BJ for her dog aggression which was extreme. She was able to be off leash around other dogs once it was used and there were no problems. |
I forgot to go look at this, and now that I have I need more info. What exactly is it?? |
All I can say is that its based on the shaker can idea but there is a method that was devised to go with it. Personally I dont like using shaker cans (or using a chain to throw near the dog...when its off leash) The method that goes with it is the key to it working.
Its extremely effective, some people dont like the idea of doing the initial imprinting session themselves but I havent met anyone yet that wouldnt have someone else do it....on their dogs.
Some of the things Ive stopped with my dogs, my Whippet was always into the trash, I could place a DogStopper on top of the trash can when I was out, she wouldnt go into the trash, she would lay near the trash can but wouldnt open it....meaning, she wasnt scared of the DogStopper.
Keep dogs off your furniture, place a couple on the couch, BJ used to run at two fences after a Boxer on one side and GSD's on the other, after Id used it on her I took her out, off her leash, she ran at the Boxer, I shook the DS and she came straight back to me, confidently, not fearful, no tail down between her legs, it was an automatic response.
There is a trainer in S.Cal who has said that he would not be in business if it wasnt for DS (not the guy I used to work for), his entire training is based on it.....last I heard he was charging between $5,000 and $8,000 for a one month in-kennel training program....and hes always busy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jamiya
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 5593
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks, DeLaUK for all the advice. That's the info I needed to know. I don't do aggressive dogs. I make very sure that any foster that comes into my house is not a resource guarder. I don't like dogs that guard their owners, either. It's a thing I don't feel comfortable with and dogs know it. So to have this behavior start in my own dog has been very disturbing, to say the least.
It doesn't help that there is guilt involved. I love Nala, but I can't help but think how much easier our lives would be with a different dog. All of the "problems" that we encounter due to our dogs start with her - destruction, chewing, gate jumping, mauling guests, stealing stuff, etc. I just need to train her better.
| Quote: |
| As you know reprimanding for anything after the fact is a waste of time because they dont associate the action with the 'offense', I dont put dogs outside when theyve done something bad either unless its because I need a break from them for a few minutes, I will crate them but only if I catch them in the process of doing 'it' (whatever 'it' may be) and they are only in for about 5 to 10 minutes. |
If Nala snaps and I am close by, can I start telling her NO as I am going towards her, grab her and stuff her in a crate and leave her for 5-10 minutes? Is that close enough to the snap (bridged by my continuously telling her no as I am walking toward her) for her to associate it with what she did wrong?
I am also concerned about timing because I was told with the cat chasing thing that if you correct at the wrong time, the dog will associate the CAT with Something Bad and will become MORE aggressive to the cat. I don't want this to happen with the little foster.
I'll have to think about the Dog Stopper thing. Nala usually is too smart for stuff like that. She knows it can't animate by itself, so if I'm not home she would ignore it - at least that's my guess. My agility trainer told me to get a Scat Mat to stop her from jumping the gate. But unless I lined up about 6 of them, she would just learn to jump over it.
About rolling Nala - another reason it is a Bad Idea for this dog is that being restrained is a particular fear of hers. Putting an animal into a blind panic is not a good learning experience. My sister rolls her Golden and it works for her, but that's a different dog.
| Quote: |
| Take another look at Clothiers book - Chapter 12 "Leadership is Action" under the section "Mine, All Mine". A situation that sounds somewhat similiar to yours is described involving one dog guarding the doorway and then the kitchen from another dog in the household. |
Awesome. I'll have a look. Is that her "Bones Would Rain From the Sky" book? I'll pull it out when I get home. I have a couple of her little booklets as well and read the balance of power one yesterday.
My biggest problem is lack of consistency. I tend to make excuses for the dogs - they didn't understand, blah blah blah - and you can't do that. Cause and effect. Every time. Period. I'll work on it.
I had some small success with her yesterday. I am stepping up NILIF and requiring more out of her at more times. She now has to down-stay the entire time I am getting her food out of the refrigerator and opening the door to go outside. Then she is released. We do the Wait thing again when I actually put the food down for her, but we have always done that. Also, since she has decided to ignore me most of the time, I now have her wearing a collar all the time. At random times, I tell her to sit - always when I am close enough to her that when she turns away from me I can grab her collar and make her sit. It only took a couple times and I am seeing improvement.
I am also watching the little foster better and making sure she is not egging Nala on. Unfortunately now I am jumpy and when they start playing I think they are fighting when they are not. Fortunately the foster is a REALLY soft dog due to the abuse issues, so all I have to do is call her name in a slightly stern voice and she comes running to me.
On the not-so-successful side, there were a couple problems yesterday when I got home. I had bought some treats at the pet store. The fosters were still in their crates finishing up their dinners, so it was only my two dogs who were loose. I have NEVER had a problem with treats and my two before, as long as I am controlling the treats. So, I was in the kitchen and Nala was sitting on one side of me and Bonnie on the other - as usual. I gave them a couple treast each for sitting - as usual. Then I put everything away and walked away - and Nala started sort of chewing on Bonnie's muzzle! I reprimanded her and she did it AGAIN! What the heck?!
Then later I was sitting outside. Nala and one foster were playing. The other foster was sitting with me and I was petting her. She got up to leave and was walking behind me when Nala came running up and grabbed her on the back of her neck and didn't let go! Poor Genie is very submissive and just wanted to get away. She wasn't doing anything and I wasn't even paying attention to her when it happened.
I think Nala is possessed.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
honeybears
Super Senior Member Plus
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 3630
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I really think you need to take a break from fostering once you find homes with the ones you have and work on Nalas issues before they get worse, which sounds like they are. My take is she wants you for herself and probably is acting up now, bcause she is thinking heh, I put up with the first dogs, but now this is something thats permament, meaning, a housefull of other dogs taking you away and she is acting out that frustration. You been given have some excellent advise to work with.
Good lUck |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jamiya
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 5593
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes, my plan is to stop fostering for a while once these two are gone. I have been taking breaks every once in a while, but not enough recently. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samsintentions
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 4292
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
there are days that I wonder...  Would I really be happy without the girls? They are such a pain in the neck. But I love every stressful moment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nern
Moderator
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 5042
Location: NY
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jamiya wrote: |
Awesome. I'll have a look. Is that her "Bones Would Rain From the Sky" book? |
Yes, thats the one. I forgot she had booklets available too, I should have specified. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nern
Moderator
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 5042
Location: NY
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DeLaUK wrote: |
Absolutely, you should never do this unless you have the physical strength and the confidence to pull it off, its not something you can get into and then give up. You do need to know some restraint techniques, were to hold, where to put your hands, unfortunately I dont think that this is something anyone can learn from a book, its something you learn over time....usually after youve had a couple of close calls, your reflexes become a lot faster. |
I must admit that I do have a nasty image in my head at the mention of people pinning a dog to "assert dominance". Not everyone does this in a gentle manner and there also seems to be quite a variety of ways people do it. One woman told me she lifts her dog off his feet by his cheeks and stares into his eyes.
Practice of restraining techniques are recommended frequently in dog training books, the difference is they are not being recommended to correct a dog that is misbehaving and highly aroused but instead to get a dog used to and comfortable with being restrained.
There is a great potential for injury in restraining a dog that is highly aroused especially for the average dog owner who is not experienced with proper restraining techniques.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samsintentions
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 4292
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree Nern. I do not reccommend just ANYONE try this. You need to know what your doing and how much is too much. I would have never tried it on my own without first seeing someone do it. I also NEVER do it unless its the last resort. If done correctly, no one gets hurt, problem is solved and everyone lives in peace.
I'm not condoming abusing your dog or anything like that, but I'm suggesting a simple technique to assert your dominance and show you dog that YOUR boss, and their behavior is not accepted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nern
Moderator
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 5042
Location: NY
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Samsintentions wrote: |
| I agree Nern. I do not reccommend just ANYONE try this. |
Good and I'm glad you'v made that clear. I've seen one too many times such techniques (often more harsh ones) recommended over the web as if it were an easy to do cure-all for all dog owners...Not that I'm accusing you of this. I just would hate for anyone just popping in to read this thread to get a bad idea to try this at home.
I think you know what I mean.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samsintentions
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 4292
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes nern... Should have clarified that in my original post.
I've visited and talked with several trainers who use techniques like this, but only in extreme cases.
Odinhaus is a good PSA trainer. Though their a little harsher than I like. PSA is not my thing, but alot of their obediance training techniques work wonders for my type of dogs. When your dealing with dogs my size, you need to know a few maneuvers that will teach them a lesson with out injuring you or your dog.
I feel safe with my dogs, knowing that I'm training them properly in a manner in which we both understand.
By using their language. I know I'm not sending the wrong message to them, and I know that they know I mean business. Its very dangerous to have a giant breed or large breed dog that tries dominating you or your family and other pets. Iknow from experiance.
A behaviorist can give much better information I'm sure. But I'm just conveying what I've learned from My own personal experiances.
Jamiya. Good luck. If all else fails, see the vet. or a behaviorist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nern
Moderator
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 5042
Location: NY
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sams: What is a PSA trainer? What does PSA stand for? Just curious. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samsintentions
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 4292
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Protection Sport Association. Turns out that boerboels are actually bad at this.. LOL.. due to their size and temperments, they tend to be too slow and too 'guardish" to do bite work.
Boels aren't supposed to do bite work. Its more of a German shephard, Malenuah, sport.
Visit:
www.odinhaus.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jamiya
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 5593
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Missy got adopted today. I am sad (happy for her) but Nala seems happy. She is playing with toys. Things were already a little better with the more strict NILIF and Nala is getting better at it. She only had to have dinner postponed once tonight. And now I don't have to be careful who I pet or which toys I play with. But I do miss little Missy. I came really close to just keeping her.  I know she is all scared at her new home - but I think they will be good people for her. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nern
Moderator
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 5042
Location: NY
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sams: Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
Jamiya: I'm glad to hear that Missy was adopted. Was she your last foster do you still have another there? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jamiya
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 5593
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I still have one more foster, but she is a very shy dog and never challenges Nala for anything.
I think two fosters are too much. I usually only do one, but sometimes a "special" case comes along and I take two. Genie and Missy together were easier - at least from my standpoint - than most single fosters. But I think the physical presence of two extra dogs is just too much for Nala. It is really hard to divide attention between so many dogs, which is why I don't think I could ever permanently own that many, unless perhaps we moved to a bigger house with some land. And I wasn't working. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samsintentions
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 4292
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jamiya ~ I currently have NO fosters or rescues (YEAH) and life is so much easier at home. But let me tell you, Its theses little breaks you get that show the impact on what its doing to your dogs mental state. I've only had a few while I've had Precious. The first GSD was ok. She was very submissive to him. and the terrier... oh the terrier... she tried to eat him a couple of times. He got adopted right away, and I don't remember if I posted about the GSD or not, but a couple came to take him home, and Precious went into a bit of a depression about it.
I think it all has to do with the individual dog. Precious loved the GSD, and HATED the terrier.
I would just momitor how she's doing with each individual and change routienes as nessesary. You may have to be a little stricter on the NILIF, and less at other times. JMO
Did I even remotely make sense there... huh....oh well.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jamiya
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 5593
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, I usually choose fosters very carefully and take a week off in between every couple fosters. But I fell in love with Missy as soon as I saw her. I'm sure Nala sensed that as well.
Nala usually loves to have someone around to play with when Bonnie doesn't want to play. Nala's "favorite" fosters are the ones that end up driving me NUTS.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samsintentions
Moderator
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 4292
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oh but of course... The crazy ones that you just can't seem to get rid of are always teh other dogs best friends!!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
- Resources for
Pet Owners World-Wide
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
