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Difference between: AmStaff, Pitt Bull and Staffshire Ter?



 
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BostonDog
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:20 pm    Post subject: Difference between: AmStaff, Pitt Bull and Staffshire Ter? Reply with quote

What is the difference between these dogs. I care and like all bull breeds but this area has me a little confused. The AmStaff, The Pit Bull and the Staffshire Terrior what are the differences and what are the commonalities?
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Sara
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HISTORY LESSON:

FIRST came the bulldog used for bull and bear baiting... a Larger version of what we have today...more like the American Bulldog... Then they refined the breed and infused terrier blood in the Bulldogs for the baiting and ratting as baiting was becoming a faux paux... These dogs were called Bull and Terriers and they split again by selective breeding into what we know as Bull Terriers and Staffordshire Terriers... Staffordshire Terriers were brought over along with Bull and Terriers (not bull terriers but the FIRST breed that came from crossing bulldogs and terriers) to the US as Immigrants... These dogs were used as Ratters and Fighting dogs...they were bred a little bigger and leaner than the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and became known as Pit Bull Terriers... The AKC recognized the Pit Bulls but when dog Fighting became something seedy and illegal (never was legal in Europe or the US) the AKC changed the name of the breed and a few of the standards (nose color allowed etc...) and then the American Staffordshire was born... The UKC was developed in order to register Pit Bulls as they were meant to be registered as was the ADBA... so...in short...all are cousins, the Am Staff more closely related to the Pit Bull but because of a long time of selective breeding...they are no longer considered the same breed...

As far as registration goes... the AKC and UKC both recognize the Staffy Bull and Bullterriers. the AKC recognizes the Am Staff but not the APBT and the UKC recognizes the APBT and not the Am Staff. ONE of them recognizes both...can't remember how that works...

Hope I didn't confuse more...LOL
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BostonDog
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:15 pm    Post subject: Thanks that helpes alot Reply with quote

No I didn't get any more confused you cleared alot up. I had an I dea that was the case. I think alot of breeders still can't differentiate between the two. I have seen Pits that are being sold as Am Staffs and vice-versa.

Thaks!
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MaxKellyAST
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think alot of breeders still can't differentiate between the two. I have seen Pits that are being sold as Am Staffs and vice-versa.


I think this could also be attributed to the fact that the UKC and ADBA allow single registrations from outside registries. The AKC does not.
So you have Amstaffs being single registered with UKC as American Pit Bull terriers and then registering them with the ADBA as Pit Bulls as well.

It can be done with the AKC but not Legally, and not as often as with the others. Likely because A dog that looks like a good game bred pit bull dog
will not compete in comformation in AKC against amstaffs.

This is where the UKC is probably making a mistake because I think APBT People and Amstaff people want a clear distinction. How do you show a conformationally correct APBT and a conformationally correct Amstaff against each other for the same breed title?? More often than not I see UKC champion APBT's that are obviously Amstaff.

I think the ADBA is generally Doing a great job with regards to tradition and breed standard in conformation titles.

True and I would both agree that our dogs look and probably act very different from one another. A distinction we are both proud of without loosing sight of the obvious and eternal link these two breeds share. The AKC borrowing from a long line of bulletproof american made dogs and in return doings its best to lend prestige to its public persona.
Opinions will vary though.......
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Sara
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WELL STATED!!!

I've always been a large fan of the ADBA in terms of conformation showing for CORRECT gamebred APBT's (to me to use Correct GAmebred is redunt because...correct IS gamebred IMO)... Anyway I also understand that the ADBA recognizes dogs with and without fire at shows...regularly facing dogs etc... So I also find that to be a good thing because it's true pit bull behavior. Wish people could see the difference in ANimal aggression and human aggression...

I think the AKC doesn't do a BAD job per-se with what they're goal seems to be...they're doing great in that sense but it seems AKC is strictly a fashion show for prestige rather than function where the UKC has functional titles to earn etc... It surprises me that the UKC regarding that last statement will still accept open registrations of APBT's... Just seems to take a step backward in terms of what their goal seems to be and what it WAS in it's inception (it was created for teh registration of APBT's)...
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MaxKellyAST
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree sara, there are big events in OB and agility with the AKC, however, its ultimately up to the "customer" to get involved. I think though the mentality of the AKC customer could revamp, esp. in the working breeds, to also do some sort of hand in hand title related to the breeds specific task.

Conformation is obviously the bread and butter of events for the AKC and you still need a pretty sound dog in order to compete there. Alot of people though at the AKC would see and event like weight pulling with the same ilk and mentality as a "Monster Truck" Show....
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Sara
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I noticed that kind of mentality at the last show I visited... My dogs might also well have been beefed up big foots to them... Not that they were rude or even snooty...perhaps just not informed of what's out there etc...? MANY people beleive if it's not AKC it's a mutt...as fact not just beleife in some elitist club and that's what I encountered... VERY odd day for me...
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Shineillusion
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sara, I encountered the same attitude from some AKC breed enthusiasts years ago, when I expressed intrest in the Pharoh Hound...back when they were still a rare breed. The attitude was pretty much "Why would you want one of THOSE? They aren't even recognized."

Well, as we all know, now they ARE recognized, hopefully not to the detriment of the breed. I still like them, though knowing more about the breed now, I don't think I want to own one.

I hope you know not all AKC breed enthusiasts are such elitist snobs, nor are we all so short sighted. A few of us are even rational.

Sadly, I've also noticed a tendency amongst American breeders to take a breed, and remake it into something it isn't, wasn't, and never should have become. Case in point; Cocker Spaniels. And it isn't just dogs, either. Horse breeders are equally guilty. Some breeds just don't need improving on, and breeders need to leave well enough alone, or get a different breed, more to their liking.
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Shineillusion
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sara, I encountered the same attitude from some AKC breed enthusiasts years ago, when I expressed intrest in the Pharoh Hound...back when they were still a rare breed. The attitude was pretty much "Why would you want one of THOSE? They aren't even recognized."

Well, as we all know, now they ARE recognized, hopefully not to the detriment of the breed. I still like them, though knowing more about the breed now, I don't think I want to own one.

I hope you know not all AKC breed enthusiasts are such elitist snobs, nor are we all so short sighted. A few of us are even rational.

Sadly, I've also noticed a tendency amongst American breeders to take a breed, and remake it into something it isn't, wasn't, and never should have become. Case in point; Cocker Spaniels. And it isn't just dogs, either. Horse breeders are equally guilty. Some breeds just don't need improving on, and breeders need to leave well enough alone, or get a different breed, more to their liking.
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Sara
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes I know not all AKC enthusiasts are snobs...and many that are are often times mostly caused simply by lack of knowledge... I assume you AKC folks who know your stuff try to educate these folks right???

Arabians are classic examples of American breeders messing up perfectly good horse breeds...
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Shineillusion
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hoo boy, isn't that the truth? Have you ever seen photos of the Arabian horses the Kellogg family imported? Those horses were 16-17 hands, had big 'pancake feet' (so they wouldn't sink into the sand) and their faces didn't look like anteaters, LOL. Teacup muzzles were unheard of.
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Sara
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were that big??? WOW... I've got a Polish Arab myself and really favor them over most of the American horses... Again with the teacup nose... HOW can they get enough wind to run miles with such small muzzles is what I want to know... And little Throat latches too??? Hmmmm....
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