need help recognizing a puppy mill

doggielover · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2004 Posts: 29

Hey guys, it's me again! Boy, oh boy, is it ever hard to find a reputable shih tzu breeder! Well if you guys remember from my previous post I had found a good breeder but she rarely returns my calls, she's always busy. So I found another breeder (in the newspaper, I know, awful) he has 16 years of experience and he's got this pure blonde shih tzu female that i am in love with, but the way he talks he sounds strange. For example he said he's got tons of puppies to choose from, he's giving the puppies away at 6 1/2 weeks old. All the males are registered but none of the females are registered. He said the mother weighed 5lbs and the father was 19lbs. He's charging me just as much as a registered puppy would cost. I know I should just forget it but I really love this sweet little pup, I still haven't visited this place, just got pics emailed. Please let me know what you guys think. Oh and also I asked him if he would allow me to check his references and he said he's got hundreds of them, and then I asked if I could contact the vet and he said well the vet is going to be here tommorow if your coming. He insisted he wasn't a puppy mill but he sounded so fake, sorry long post!

ntengwall · Member Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 49 Location: Maryland

I don't think it sounds too good Sad

For me, allowing the pups to wean naturally is a big deal! I teach natural childbirth classes (for humans LOL) and also teach breastfeeding. I believe in child-led weaning and so it only makes sense to me that you wouldn't take a pup from it's mom until it has received everything it needs from her. And that is not taking into consideration the emotional aspect of it. 6 week old pups are not meant to be on their own. I got a shih-tzu from a puppy mill once when I was in high school and she was wonderful until she hit about a year---then she turned into a mean little dog---and trust me, it wasn't because of how WE treated her! My point being that she may seem really "sound" right now, but you never know what that early separation (and any other mistreatment) might mean for her in the future.

PooGirl13 · Senior Member Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 677

First, finding a breeder is the paper isn't a bad thing! That's where I found mine and she was absolutely wonderful!!! Very Happy

As far as price, I know that many think that mixes shouldn't be that expensive because they are not purebred but I don't agree with that. My main concern was getting puppies that were healthy and happy, price came second. Of course everyone is different, so it's all in how much you want to spend and what you deem reasonable.

What DOES bother me about this man is that he is willing to let the puppies go at 6 1/2 weeks Shocked

That is NOT good! Puppies should never leave their mother/littermates that soon as they are still learning valuable things from them. That alone tells me that he doesn't care about these puppies, he just wants them "sold".

If you are hesitant, I think you should go with your gut feeling and keeping looking for a reputable breeder. If you are undecided, stop by and meet with him, I'm sure you'll know right away whether you want to deal with this guy or not.

Short story.. I was talking to a breeder on the phone during my search and she was very nice. She told me that I was more than welcome to visit her etc., so hubby and I went to see her. When we drove up to the house and got out of the car, I knew right away that she was a puppy mill b/c there was a HUGE barn on the property and loud barking coming from inside of it! I just knew that's where all of her dogs/puppies were being kept and that to me is a puppy mill (just my opinion!). If I hadn't visited her, I wouldn't have known b/c I thought she was great otherwise after talking with her.

Good luck & let us know how you make out Very Happy

puttin510 · Super Senior Member Plus Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 2748

I would erase this little blonde girl from your mind. Small breed dogs should stay with their mother until at least 10 weeks.
You know I was just brwosing thru my little mailer and see a 6 weekold female for $850 champion lines it says. We are in california. If these people are any good they will let that pup stay with the mom but go ahead and sell her and give her to them at the appropriate time.

4Dogsihave · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:33 am Post subject:

I too wanna add that you should probly move on. Unless you are able to visit him and check the place out yourself. The age thing really bothers me but he may be old school in thinking puppies only need their mother that long. Not trying to defend him just trying to possibly figure out the logic. If you think this is the case you may ask him if the puppy can stay with her mother a little longer. Anyway you need to do what your gut tells you but please let us know!

MyBabyShihPoo · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:08 pm Post subject:

DON'T BUY FROM THIS PERSON...do yourself a favor and move on. Find a responsible, reputable, well-educated, experienced, and ethical breeder - this person obviously doesn't fit every aspect of that criteria!!!

DogLover · Member Joined: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 147 Location: CA

Yap, he sounds like a puppy mill to me.

MyBabyShihPoo · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:59 am Post subject:

MollysMom · Member Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 78 Location: Colorado

Yep, I'd keep looking.
A good breeder won't let their pups go until 8-12 weeks. (Mine let us have ours at 10 weeks).
You should be welcome to visit at anytime, the place and pups should appear clean and healthy.
My breeder had a 8 day guarantee against contagious disease, and a 1 year against genetic defects. Plus, they should be willing to take the dog back at anytime, and have an adoption contract. PLUS....they should have 1 or two sets of shots, and deworming.
Our pup was even microchipped.

MonsterBailey · Super Senior Member Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 1280

Doglover... your avatar is sooooo precious!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DogLover · Member Joined: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 147 Location: CA

MonsterBailey, thanks for the compliment. Chobby would love you saying it to him and give you lots of kisses!!! I've been hoping to ask you this, is Bailey a Lhasa Apso?

MonsterBailey · Super Senior Member Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 1280

I just think Chobby is soooooo freakin cute! Smile

"chubby chobby"...... hehe.

Bailey is a shihpoo (shihtzu/poodle mix) ... funny that you asked if he was a lhasa apso, cuz when I used to have his coat longer, he was often asked if he was a lhasa or a havanese.